Unfortunately in today’s climate, the country is split for many reasons that we won’t delve into. This unfortunate trend has become reality for Golden Knights fans as well. By now I’m sure you’ve seen the division in the fanbase. For some, it’s either you are a Robin Lehner supporter or you’re not. And of course, after Tuesday night’s debacle, the detractors were loud.
I think there are fans that have different reasons but it all comes down to this: his name is not Marc-Andre Fleury. His style is not Marc-Andre Fleury. And that’s what fans were used to since the team’s inception. Change is hard when it comes to goaltenders, especially when the face of the city is unceremoniously dumped for cap space.-Mike McKenna, Daily Faceoff
The chatter began to heat up after the Golden Knights defeated the Oilers 4-0 on Tuesday night. Backup goaltender Laurent Brossoit started the first game of a back-to-back situation and secured his first shutout of the season. After the game, many were calling for coach Pete DeBoer to elevate Brossoit as the permanent starter. This wasn’t the first time certain fans had pleaded for a swap in roles.
The Golden Knights coach could have started Lehner against Edmonton but he chose not to. Instead, DeBoer used his ace in what he considered an important game. This is what the head coach said in Calgary when asked about the status of captain Mark Stone.
This was an important game. He would’ve played if he could have. We’ll check him out when we get back to Vegas. -Pete DeBoer
That short statement should tell fans where the coaching staff stands. DeBoer dresses his best players (when available) in bigger games.
Getting back to the divide amongst the fanbase. It’s reasonable for fans to be concerned with Lehner’s overall performance this season. Fans expressing disappointment shouldn’t be charged as a hater. Most care about the team’s success, not one individual’s. So, it shouldn’t be considered trolling when pointing out that Lehner is below his career averages in Save % and Goals Allowed Average.
NHL Goaltending Leaders
Igor Shesterkin .937 Save%
Frederik Anderson .927 Save%
Juuse Saros .926 Save%
Jacob Markstrom .925 Save%
Tristan Jarry .925 Save%
*23. Robin Lehner .907 Save%
Frederik Anderson 2.08 GAA
Igor Shesterkin 2.10 GAA
Jacob Markstrom 2.13 GAA
Tristan Jarry 2.21 GAA
Andrei Vasilevskiy 2.23 GAA
*21. Robin Lehner 2.86 GAA
While the stats show a significant decrease in stability, Lehner isn’t the only reason for that. For the better part of the season, the Golden Knights have not been a good defensive team. It’s been a combination of injuries, poor coverage, and style. It won’t matter who’s in net if certain variables break down in front of them. That happened a few times against the Flames but only Lehner was trending on social media after the game. It had been since the first period.
1st period stats per @NatStatTrick these last two nights
Shots – 12-6 EDM / 14-4 CGY
Corsi – 30-15 EDM / 23-9 CGY
Scoring Chances – 18-10 EDM / 14-4 CGY
High Danger Chances – 11-2 EDM / 4-2 CGY
xGF – 1.5-0.64 EDM / 0.92-0.37 CGY
Goals – 2-0 VGK / 3-0 CGY— SinBin.vegas (@SinBinVegas) February 10, 2022
It can get tense on Twitter after a difficult loss but it shouldn’t turn into immediate division. It’s time to do away with the labels. It’s okay to say Lehner wasn’t great tonight. Or Brossoit should be the starting goaltender. You would be wrong but it’s okay to express. When a player is having a poor night tweet away. Fair criticism shouldn’t be considered controversial.
As McKenna pointed out, the way Marc-Andre Fleury was shipped out bothers most of the Golden Knights fanbase. Clearly, some haven’t accepted the transition and Lehner becomes the target. The majority of Golden Knights fans only care about the team advancing in the playoffs. They’re no longer dwelling on Fleury’s departure or Lehner’s less exciting style. At this point, it’s only about that trophy they were promised five years ago.
THE hockey GOD
sheesh, fans just need to accept that being a fan of fleury is not the same as being a fan of the team
THE hockey GOD
MAF = farce of franchise
seven million a year wasted, x five years =35 million.
I liked MAF in season one, until he flopped like a fish out of water against the CAPS in finals.
I liked him when he took them to seven games against the Sharks, then he blew the last game letting in one weak goal after another after another.
I liked him the next year, until he back stabbed the team with his cartoon complaining about not playing
I liked him in the “bubble” until he blew the montreal series, every real fan knows he blew it.
IN sum 35 million down the toilet, no cup to show for it. The FARCE of the franchise.
The real Hockey God, do not fall for false hockey God idols or posters. The purple icon avatar tells you which one is real one.
Scott Yardley
Hockey god my ass!
THE hockey GOD
which hockey God are you addressing , the real one or fake one ??
Yardley “head up his a$$” LOL
Soup nutzi says “no list for you ” and go harass and troll someone else. Typical example of how someone starts something then goes on later to complain about it.
NHL is a JOKE
Not sure what you are referring to but sounds all too familiar. Hockey is being discussed here, but you feel it necessary to shift the conversation to some social bull****. Shame on you and you should put your keyboard on time out and think about how revolting you are acting! This is not your social forum, talk hockey or shut the **** up!!!
Oh and I love Fleury because he is a great guy on and off the ice, and a goes about his business very professionally…he is not infallible though and I do think he should have gone. But Lehner is terrible, he has no consistency because his focus is too much on the social aspects of the league…he should mix in some practice time.
THE hockey GOD
the four posts above you are all about hockey except for some guy named Scott who has issues with his keyster
Richie-Rich
We finally agree!
If you are a VGK fan you should be rooting for your team. That does NOT mean that you can’t be critical of players or front office decisions. That’s all a part of the dialogue. It’s supposed to be fun, but too often the level of dialogue deteriorates into the mud here. We can debate and discuss, but damn the name calling and attitudes need be checked before they hit the internet keyboard!
Institutional racism may be dead, but it sure has reared its ugly head time and time again in this group. I find it revolting, and unprofessional.
THE hockey GOD
calling someone farce of franchise is not ‘institutional racism”
where did that come from ????????
the REAL TS..REALLY!
RR: DITTO!! I understand CHIRPING is part of Hockey, but some fans have taken the CHIRPING to the interne. SINBIN is an OPINION SITE. We ALL have opinions, AGREEMENT or NOT. I was trolled for so long here, I was wary of posting ANYTHING, because I was constantly attacked. Being harassed is NOT what I subscribed to here.
The one constant is we are ALL fans..as one poster said: SHOW SOME CLASS, FANS!! GO KNIGHTS!!
NHL is a JOKE
Not sure what you are referring to but sounds all too familiar. Hockey is being discussed here, but you feel it necessary to shift the conversation to some social bull****. Shame on you and you should put your keyboard on time out and think about how revolting you are acting! This is not your social forum, talk hockey or shut the **** up!!!
Oh and I love Fleury because he is a great guy on and off the ice, and a goes about his business very professionally…he is not infallible though and I do think he should have gone. But Lehner is terrible, he has no consistency because his focus is too much on the social aspects of the league…he should mix in some practice time.
Josh
VGK should stop letting trade-acquired players wear “90.”
It never works out for the team.
Richie-Rich
For me, not embracing Lehner no longer has anything to do with MAF. I am disappointed that this far into the season we are still even talking about him.
The focus should be solely focused on Lehner’s performance and why he is not even in the top 20 goal tenders this season. That should be the sole focus and the only debate. I am no longer on twitter because it is platform much like a spittoon. People just spit into it.
There are two points to consider when evaluating Robin Lehner.
#1 Robin Lehner’s skill set, his career averages, and the obvious holes in his skill set.
#2 The numerous injuries to the defense and poor defensive play by the current VGK.
Kelly McCrimmon has to own his own decisions. The jury is still out on the moves he has made. Period, that is all from me on this topic. Stop talking about MAF.
THE hockey GOD
only people talking about him are the , as Kevin I puts it. the “unsophisticated fan base” who blame every loss on goalie.
NHL is a JOKE
You are not a God, and Lehner is Trash!
Stop calling people names as you are NOT elite and you are only hurting any good points you may have. You are right that its not always the goalies fault (0 goals, terrible defense, etc.), but should have been 3 or 4-0, not 6! He is inconsistent at best, but maybe he is injured and playing through it which always has an effect on performance. And of course we don’t know exactly what the case is, but I just don’t think he was ever that good.
THE hockey GOD
@NHL JOKE I was referencing Kevin Iole’s article last Sunday you coined the term “unsophisticated fans base” that is why it was put in quotes. Anyone following this site would know that.
I never said I was GOD. My alias is THE hockey GOD (with purple avatar, not gold one who is a mimic who thinks copying me is a good thing) , why THE hockey GOD ? Because the HOCKEY GUY was taken. “)
THE hockey GOD
yes I agree the NHL is a JOKE !!
Daryl
So, we don’t agree with you on RL and we are unsophisticated? Yeah that makes sense
Julie
Thank you, Richie. A voice of reason.
On the other team members, something seems off for sure. It’s not that they lose a game here and there, they don’t have a rhythm that I can tell. I get injuries, etc. But it’s like overall the mix of the older and younger guys or communication, I don’t know. Something is lacking in tying them together as whole. They have talent, so I hope something breaks through kind of how a few years ago St Louis was kind of bad and then mid-season they turned it around and won the Cup.
knights fan in minny
lb should get more starts he is more then capable
THE hockey GOD
Mark Stone RW, Vegas Golden Knights
Mark Stone’s upper-body injury is reportedly a nagging back issue.
Stone has been bothered by the problem all year and it apparently dates back beyond this season. He has been out four separate times due to the issue this year. There has been speculation that he could be moved to LTIR for the rest of the year, which would provide Vegas with the cap space to activate Jack Eichel. Stone didn’t play on Wednesday night because of what the team called an upper-body ailm
Richie-Rich
I have a deteriorating L5/S1. If you’ve ever felt the lightning bolt like stabbing/cutting pain you would know that it is a debilitating nagging injury that only will get worse with age. My issues began when I was in my mid-thirties, but then again I wasn’t playing hockey.
It’s true Stone hasn’t been the same this year. An L5/S1 injury could be the end of his stellar career if it isn’t taken care of.
THE hockey GOD
R R , I had a lower back injury too. I was in PT for six months. And to this day I can still tweak it. Back / spinal injuries are very difficult to heal.
I feel your pain buddy.
the REAL TS..REALLY!
Agreed. We DO give up a lot of high-danger chances –a lot of breakaways, also. Hard for Lehner to stop “free shots”. Would MAF stop these?? Most of them, yes. But even MAF couldn’t stop ALL of them. Yes, many fans are disappointed that MAF is gone ( myself included), but Lehner is not to blame. and fans have bashed him unfairly. This is THE hot- button subject of this season for good reason, when MAF was. and still is, a VERY popular player.
Re: Broissoit: I feel he is a reliable back-up to Lehner. I wish he was given more net time. Lehner needs more rest now, so
he’s ready for playoffs.
the Hockey God
nice post, really, I mean REALLY !!
the REAL TS..REALLY!
Thanks for the positive!! We’re all on the same side, and we need to remember that! GO KNIGHTS!!
Richie-Rich
Again, another throwback post to MAF. I am not going to address any more MAF comparisons.
Yes, Brossoit is a reliable backup and I think the team would be better giving him more ice time. Lehner needs more rest because it takes a lot of energy for the Walrus!
But, let me clear. I do not blame Lehner, or Brossoit for winning or losing. Period. Get that through? My point, and the only point I am trying to make is that we do not have elite goaltending. We do not even have above average goaltending. Out of 32 teams in the NHL, Robin Lehner is ranked #15 out of 32 starters. That’s AVERAGE. And since the FO isn’t going to make changes at goal, the offense and defense has to pick up the slack against the top teams in the NHL.
That’s it, and that is the only point I have been trying to make all along. It would be best if both the offense and defense were upgraded. Covering up the lack of elite goaltending is the point I have been trying to make.
Frank
Simpy put…. VGK’s current style of defensive play does not suit the goaltending of Robin Lehner. They give up far too many high danger chances, where the goalie needs to make quick, reaction type saves… not Lehner’s forte. Nor is it really Brossoit’s forte. Neither Lehner nor Brossoit are the type of goalie that can steal you a game. They are solid, not spectacular. We need to score 4 every night and/or play much tighter defense.
Annnnnnnnddddd the elephant in the room in this debate is the way management dumped MAF. He was not the problem and should have been allowed to retire as a Golden Knight. Oh well…….
IMHO, the Lehner trade/contract will be looked upon very unfavorably in hindsight. Why go out and get another goaltender when what you really needed was a center?? Perhaps Lehner can prove me wrong and backstop a cup run this season….. Not holding my breath.
THE hockey GOD
@Frank “Simpy put…. VGK’s current style of defensive play does not suit the goaltending of Robin Lehner”
Not against a team like the FLAMES that shredded the 1 1 3 on a back to back game, while they were lying in wait to pounce. But on prior road trip the 1 1 3 worked out fine.
One game doesn’t make the season, nor does one team. VGK can beat the Flames in extended series. Their depth and coaching is better, although the FLAMEs have one of the best coaches in NHL. But there is a reason the LA KING rode him out of town. He can be beat. Wait for it.
Blitz
Interesting it used to be doc who was the ultimate defender or RL. Now it is you. You got your greased up shirtless Lehner poster on your bedroom wall. Calling everyone Lehner haters and disagreeing with any one who says anything remotely neg about Lehner, true or not.
Frank is 100% correct in his assessment of RL and VGK’s style of defense. Even goalie Mike Mckenna said the same thing. Yet here you are defending your man crush.
THE hockey GOD
I guess you missed this part below which I posted below a few short seconds after I posted above.
“When RL let a goal in off his head , I called him out.
When he held his stick upside down, I called him out.
When he twitted about stuff, I called him out (wiggy biscuit)
When he first started I coined him the Walrus.
So anyone saying I am biased, they are full of it.”
McKenna talks out of both sides of his mouth, last week he was defending RL. HE can’t have it both ways.
Doc is long gone. I never agreed with anything he said.
Blitz
You used to be more neutral (pos and neg) when it came to RL I agree, but you are far from that these days. In almost every thread you are calling someone a RL hater, or worse, and then defending RL no matter what. Truth is i am probably the only true RL hater on the site. He is a fucking kneeler and will never have my respect (and yes I sang the song in my head when I spelled respect). However, other fans just want him to play better and win and they are entitled to a neg opinion when RL lets in a 6 count and/or they can still bitch about the fisting the VGK FO gave the fans over MAF. To them it isn’t just about getting to the cup like Ken constantly says. This is passion, commitment, and a sense of we. When you talk to your vgk buddy you say, “did you watch that game last night, we kicked ass”. I didn’t do shit for the win, but I am right there with the team win or lose. It’s sports passion pure and simple. Win is up, lose is down, and holy shit if you trade the most popular player for less than dog shit and bring in a kneeler/social media drama queen as the replacement. I’m still pissed.
Now on to RL’s play and not my personal feelings. Frank here hit it on the head. If defense is playing well in front of RL the dude is a rock wall. If defense is hit or miss then RL is hit or miss. If defense is shit, RL is shit and he doesn’t have the mobility, skill, and athleticism to elevate the defense. Elite goalies can and do often. Price, Vasilevskiy, and yes MAF have this ability make up for bad defensive play. Any goalie can kill it with an awesome defense in front them, but to put the defense on your back when they are sucking is elite. RL is good, but definitely not elite.
Richie-Rich
Blitz nailed it right on the head. RL is a pedestrian goaltender, nothing more.
Yeah, if you bring in the disrespect to our nation’s Flag and National Anthem, then put me in the RL Hater column. There is never a reason to disrespect our nation’s Flag or Anthem. That’s misguided and misplaced ire.
The hockey GOD
Blitz and I used to be more partial to MAF which many posters here forget. I call them fairly is another way to say it
Galdom
There are greased up shirtless Robin Lehner posters out there. Yuk! How do you know this?
the Hockey God
i completely forgot he kneeled, and disrespected our flag/anthem. Maybe because he hasn’t kneeled recently. I hear kneeling takes a nasty toll on your knees. Like what happened to our prior starting goalie. Who we gave up for who ? Oh yeah, Boris Badanov and Natasha. Boris has more goals than the captain, one good thing has come of it. Always try to look on sunny side of life !
knights fan in minny
thats scary
Daryl
So, VGK just got destroyed by the Flames yet VGK ccan beat them in a series because they have better coaching?
Daryl
Blitz,
I couldn’t agree more with everything you just stated!!!!
Tim
The Lehner dilemma? You can bet from Foley down they are worried about the goalie. To win a cup you need a great goalie or a goalie that steps up in the playoffs. I personally think Lehner is neither. He’s not a bad goalie but the way it looks were going to ride him and what happens happens. Management has given us a winning team and we should all be thankful for that. To get to the next level a good goaltender is not good enough. To use common sense when the playoffs come scoring goes down because of better competition so Lehner giving up 3 to 5 goals a night is a problem. I’m not beating on him and no I hate Lehner but it just is a fact.I see the same problem with Colorado a great team but a shaky goalie. They score a lot of goals but in the playoffs if they don’t there in trouble like us. Our high priced players are showing there age Patch broken foot and wrist just isn’t helping a lot no goals in the last 10 games plus all his down time. Mark Stone although not as old looks to be waring down. Thats 16 million a year and thats a big chunk of our cap money. The intentions on Stone, Patch, and Lehner were good but it now looks like we may have a problem with all three. I cheer for the Knights but I think if your honest with yourself were not built right now to win a Stanley Cup.
THE hockey GOD
JAson with his typical no nothing media mob pot stirring, getting the unsophisticated fan base all stirred up.
Did Jason point out:
the RL haters blame RL for VGK only having 4 SOG in first period of last game ?? Of course not.
Kevin was right, Jason needs to go back and read his Sunday article.
Too many , in word of Kevin I, “unsophisticated fans” in Vegas.
When RL let a goal in off his head , I called him out.
When he held his stick upside down, I called him out.
When he twitted about stuff, I called him out (wiggy biscuit)
When he first started I coined him the Walrus.
So anyone saying I am biased, they are full of it.
I also called out MAF, the farce of franchise. So far RL has not been
given team support like they gave MAF. MAF clearly let them down. So far RL
has not let anyone down.
When he does I will let you all know, until then I expect a big bounce back from the WHOLE TEAM.
Every time VGK loses a game, the unsophisticated fans blame the goalie. Typical nonsense.
The VGK is back up near the top of league in man games lost. With no. 2 and no 61 putting them back up there. The whole team play suffers.
Calgary is now four points behind the leading VGK, there goal difference is
+41 (the best in division and fourth best in NHL, and to VGK +19 (did the author write about that ? Nope. ). The flames have four games in hand. Flames have best chance to take the lead.
As I stated , I expect VGK to bounce back. Wait for it. Stone has not been one of their best players this year. He hardly body checks anyone, obviously coach needs to get the right player in lineup to take his slot.
THE hockey GOD
make that three points behind , 59 to 56
hdbiker7851
Thg – not being nasty, you without a doubt are the biggest wind bag on this site – that without any doubt is being kind – the god thing has gone to your head. It is people like you that stoke the fire every chance you get about MAF. He’s gone, no longer an issue where the knights are concerned – deal in the present not the past – that kind of thing has something to do with the beginning of real problems – better not set sail on your boat you may never get back. Everyone is tired of hearing about MAF – its over, done with, move on.
THE hockey GOD
hd biker, you are still on the list.
I respect your opinion.
hdbiker7851
Thg – respecting my opinion – That being the case Please pay attention to the later part of the post: “deal in the present not the past – that kind of thing has something to do with the beginning of real problems – better not set sail on your boat you may never get back”. – concerned about your health.
THE hockey GOD
biker
“not being nasty, you without a doubt are the biggest wind bag on this site ”
thank you for kind words, I guess that is better than being a talking bush in middle of some God forsaken desert on the way to Mt. Sinai (in Saudi Arabian peninsula ) with a half million complaining Israelites in tow.
THE hockey GOD
a talking burning bush that is. I stand corrected.
THE hockey GOD
Amended and updated list of this site’s positive, forward thinking and “sophisticated” VGK and NHL fan base.
Some people took exception to the comments ,calling them ‘gradings’ or “ratings” which they are not. Regardless, I removed them.
amended and updated list
And the leading contenders for Kevin Iole most sophisticated fan poster on this forum (myself not included because as you all know my posts are beyond reproach based upon this week’s activity include the following:
DC-
Real real real TS-
K.F.I.M. –
Arnold the Brain- odds watcher
Galdom –
Biker-
Tim-
FG, Joe, B, Jeffry TheChosenONE, DMR, Walt –and some more newcomers I missed
Rich Sacammano- MIA
Sean-
Richie- Rich –
pistol pete-
Blitz-
If you didn’t make the list than you know you are either
1- stalker pervert
2- troll
3- no added value to content
4- hoodlum material only posting to stir the pot.
5- trolls who use multiple fake identities- you know who you are
6- people who distort other people’s post to try and make it look like “they call them out” or try to “live in their brains rent free” (latest supplement from the mentally ill)
THE hockey GOD
RL haters have Klára Peslarová lined up as new face of franchise , diversity, first female goalie ever in NHL .
This will come to fruition the team moves from Vegas to Regina and become
the the Regina Power Forward Vaginas. With new pink and purple rainbow jerseys to replace the vomit yellow and gold.
Bettman is foaming at the mouth, he can’t wait for it.
Duane
I have followed this site religiously since its inception. For the most part, I have learned a lot about hockey, but now the blog has become dominated with derogatory remarks, name calling, and disrespect. The primary posters… whom I used to see as knowledgeable hockey experts… have become no better than those on the political left who throw out the term “racist'” any time someone disagrees with them. If anyone wants evidence of the level this country has fallen to, they just need to read the posts on this site. I can’t stomach it anymore…
Pistol Pete
I don’t really think VGK could win a Cup with MAF. He had his last chance vs. MTL and we all know what happened in game 3. Now we all know the outcome of that series is not as simple as attributing the wins and losses to the goalies but Fleury’s best game was game 1–1GA/.966. The other three games he played were a disaster stats wise—3GAA/.890. Lehner came in and won game 4–1GA/.964 and game 6 the final game that lost the series—3GA/.906.
Lehner sole loss of the series, he had a higher SV% than Fleury’s three losses.
Lehner lost that important final game giving up three goals—not good.
Fleury lost three games in a row after winning game 1 in a strong performance—not good.
Again, wins and losses are not fully attributable to goaltending, in fact the offense had trouble scoring including zero PP and perhaps there were defensive issues as well (not sure).
Again, I don’t really think MAF would ever win a Cup with VGK. Lehner if he plays his most solid, he still has a shot.
Pistol Pete
Those two games Lehner’s GAA was 2.00 but the three goals allowed in the deciding game was decisive. Lehner is a very good goalie, that according to Mike McKenna who knows a great deal about goaltending. Definitely an issue in playing his best and bringing during the playoffs.
Daryl
Is this year’s team a better team than last years?
Pistol Pete
All these current “elite” goalies, the ones with the league leading stats, mostly they lose in the playoffs, don’t they? Some may in round one.
VGK Fan
As a season ticket holder for the past four years and a follower of this website for just as long I’ve enjoyed reading post from many on this website including Blitz, The Real TS, Daryl, Galdom, Doc, Biker, Tim, RR, and PP. I don’t always agree with their opinions but I find them to be genuine, honest and insightful and without malice.
I’m a fan of all current players and past players. I’ll never understand the lack of appreciation for our former players. Once they are gone it’s ok to remember the good and let go of the bad. I enjoyed cheering for the Blues the year Perron got to raise the cup.
Stay Classy Vegas
THE hockey GOD
should I add you to the list ?
for some reason I left you out.
Why do you think that is the case ?
Galdom
You are classy VGK fan
Justin
The criticism of RL has nothing to do with MAF, the writer is really overthinking it, as are some here who claim any who criticize RL are haters, and MAF lovers.
The truth is and ends with the fact when some may criticize RL they just don’t think he’s that good, simple as that. They’re just expressing an opinion. Thg and others take it personally. Not personal. RL just isn’t playing well this year. He’s slow and gives up soft goals all the time. He’s easy to beat high glove and low glove. He’s easy to beat high blocker and low blocker. He’s crazy easy to beat 5-hole. He’s very good at stopping shots right at his chest. That’s what some of us see when we watch him play. Almost every night the goalie on the other side looks sharper, quicker. It’s just that simple please stop trying read more into our comments than what is intended.
THE hockey GOD
I hear ya justin except in last game, the first three shots were in corner that no one could stop because the defense let the opposition park in front of danger zone. The fourth goal was only suspect one. I didn’t see the last two. After 4 goal lead going into period three and no 41 missing point blank chances, the game was clearly over. Only four shots in period one by VGK isn’t on the goalie either, no goalie could expect less with only four SOG.
Have to look at whole picture.
Justin
Not talking about one game, talking about the whole picture.
The hockey GOD
The whole picture is that when team wins the goalies are great, when they lose it is goalie’s fault , even when in recent losses vgk only manage 3 SOG in one game And in another Only 4 SOG on first period. Can not win games when your offense is that consistently anemic despite who is in goal.
The hockey GOD
I first period that is
The hockey GOD
I would rate the PP, PK, face offs, gap control, defensive assignments , puck control and finishing checks (VGK do not have consistent body checkers) as more pressing needs for improvement than the two goalies play at this point in time.
Watching VGK prospect now in Chicom Canucks vs Americans, do far looking like a player
Galdom
There is a lot they have to clean up. Very true THG. While Lehner’s game and stats this season have not been up to his career standard, we cannot forget that this team will go nowhere if there special teams (PP and PK) don’t improve. Their defensive play has not been very good although it has recently got a bit better and I don’t like how they’ve become soft. Maybe that should be talked about more than just Robin Lehner. Sometimes that power-play looks so inept that it almost becomes a momentum changer when the opponent easily kills it off.
the Hockey God
a goalie is only as good as players in front of him; I remember the Red Wings back in the day had best goalies on their team (Sawchuck, Crozier, etc.) and still couldn’t win games. Ed Giacom played for the lowly Rangers. Toronto had some good goalies. These teams perennially missed the playoffs.
Galdom
I’ve largely stayed out of this but here’s my post and opinion. I don’t think that Robin Lehner will ever get a fair shake by some of the base, not all but some. I’m not painting everybody with the same brush. If someone is going to say that it has nothing to do with MAF and that they think Lehner just isn’t that good then I believe them . If someone says they can’t stand Lehner because he has the audacity to believe in something that they don’t, like kneeling then I also believe that they just hate Lehner. Criticizing Lehner does not mean that you are automatically a Lehner hater. However, there are Lehner haters, they do exist.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if someone wants to try to challenge their opinion intelligently then there’s nothing wrong with that either as long as you don’t get too nasty or racial. However, I don’t take what people text too seriously as it is different than what they would say straight to your face. I think a lot of us have hit the send button wishing that we could then undelete a post.
If anybody’s read my posts I hope they would see that most of them are 80% fact based and 20% opinion. If someone can dislike Lehner for kneeling I can certainly understand that because they probably believe that it is a flaw in his character. I dislike MAF for that tweet because I thought it wasn’t selfish cowardly act. That’s my opinion and does that make me an MAF hater? Possibly and maybe I may have some bias in my support of Robin Lehner, I am human but I think for the most part I have been objective and factual.
The truth is that Robin Lehner has had a subpar season according to his usual standard. I am not delusional and I have never challenged that. What has gotten my back up is when posters say things that are unfactual and I will then try to politely dispute that by displaying facts. If someone’s going to tell me that Robin Lehner has been complete garbage this year I can dispute that because I don’t believe that to be the case. I do believe he has been subpar to his standards and completely understand the concern and loss of confidence that the fan base has for him going forward in this year‘s playoffs.
If someone’s going to tell me that the only pucks that he stops are ones shot straight at his chest then I have to call that out as being ridiculous. You simply can’t have a career over a decade long with a .917 save percentage in the regular season and an even better .919 save percentage in the playoffs if the only thing you are capable of doing is stop a puck shot right at you. I bring out “facts” to dispute such a stupid statement but perhaps my flaw is not letting it go. If someone’s truly going to believe that Lehner’s had a good 10 year career because people have been shooting the puck straight at him then so be it. It’s the same thing as when he shut out the Washington Capitals, some would not give him credit for that because they simply don’t like him. And that’s their prerogative, I can dispute that with them but then should just let it go. If someone’s going to tell me that Robin Lehner has never had a successful playoff run there is nothing wrong with me calling them out for being unfactual. Someone did that and I had to point out that Robin Lehner’s 2019-20 playoff run and MAF’s 2020-21 playoff runs were exactly the same. So I believe that there are some haters and I believe a lot of this has to do with recency bias as well because Lehner has not been great this season.
My thought process all along has been that Lehner is capable of doing the job for this team. He has shown it in the recent four game road trip and in that great playoff run that he had. I support Lehner because he has done it and I know he is capable. I also support him because I kind of feel bad for the way some of the fans treat him.
In spite of my support and knowing what he is capable of, what truly matters is that he has not done the job this year so far. We are living in the present day and this is a results oriented business and Robin Lehner has not been up to his standards this year.
At the end of the day and to summarize this long winded post it’s up to the man himself to perform better. If Robin Lehner gets his game back to his career standards then most fans will get behind him, and of course some never will and I guess that’s okay. We all need villains.
Justin
Galdom, very reasonable post. I see you are balancing your views and showing respect to different opinions. I respect and appreciate that, well done. And your views expressed are on the mark and fair regarding his past history. And yes you are correct in your implication I was exaggerating a bit to say he’s really good at stopping the shots right at this chest and other places not so much. I say this from frustration because I do believe it true to some extent, that he gets beat a lot/gives up a lot of his softies by being slow with his blocker or glove, or giving up the 5 hole. He’s also falls down a lot trying to make an initial save and can not get up quickly to get a rebound. I only watched him as VGK so I can’t speak to how good he was in the past but I accept your simple assessment that you don’t amass his numbers without being good. Point conceded, he must have been very solid in the past. This year he is not and I stand by my view that most nights he doesn’t look as good as the goalie on the other team.
For me and my family it comes down to being frustrated as huge VGK fans. My wife and I haven’t missed a game in 5 years. It’s family tradition to be here for pre-game, watch it all through the post game interviews. It just has been a blast to be on this journey with the team. This year however, it’s not been as fun and the reason mostly is that lack of trust in the goal-tending. Robin has an incredible propensity this year to let in goals early in games and/or early in periods. Many of those are soft. It seems he needs to let in a goal or two to get warmed up. This is incredibly frustrating as a fan as it’s like here we go again. Coming from behind is fun but can get tiring and really stacks the odds against the team, and adds stress to fans as they watch. He also is uncanny at letting in multiple goals at a time. So he might give up one early and then you sit there thinking another one is going to go in a minute or two later. Very frustrating. It doesn’t happen all the time of course, but from experience I can’t get the thought out of my head as I’m watching. I don’t follow stats like you do, I just watch. But my observation lead me to think Lehner might be one of the worst in the NHL at giving up goals in the 1’st period, putting his team behind. Now of course that has a lot to do with the defense as many of you mentioned, but a lot of them are just soft or semi-soft. You just have to come up with the saves you need to make, no margin for error, and the other team’s goalies just don’t let in as many soft ones. Stats could suggest otherwise I have no idea, I’m just going off my own personal observations.
PDB always has said in the past it’s a 3-2 league, the first team to 3 usually wins. This mindset has been developed over decades of coaching. However this mindset is totally outdated as of this year with this team. Now there can’t be many fans that actually watch a game and think this is true. It’s the opposite, if the Knights get to 3 you’re thinking well that definitely won’t be enough, they need to get to 5 and maybe they’ll win. And sure enough as you’re thinking this Robin may let in 2 goals within 3 minutes to let the other team tie it up and it’s here we go again. Just not fun to watch this year from a goaltending perspective because we sit there thinking we’ve seen this movie too many times and know the next scenes are going to be ugly but we can’t change them. It’s become too predictable in a bad way.
RL as a guy I totally route for. I like his story, really like his interviews because he’s so candid and just tells it all straight as he sees it in the moment. How he battles his demons he deserves credit for as a person. I hope all the best for him and his family, he deserves happiness in this life.
Just one dude’s opinion, not worth much, but posting a few thoughts. I respect your other opinions who think he’s real good. I just don’t see it. Sometimes we all can see things differently, it’s ok. The opinions that real matter are the McManagers and they’ve ties all of our horses to RL for the next several years so tough luck for us that would rather see a big improvement in the goalie department. So for those of us that think this movie will be very predictable for the next few years we are just hoping someone might write in a different story and pleasantly surprise us.
THE hockey GOD
Justin
” The opinions that real matter are the McManagers and they’ve ties all of our horses to RL for the next several years” Food for thought: when and if he screws up like the farce of franchise did in his last few years, don’t think for a moment that they will cut him loose. No one has a permanent job in NHL , not Wayne Gretzky, not Gordie Howe, not Bobby Orr. No one gets a free pass. There is no such thing.
THE hockey GOD
wow and wow Galdom, two excellent posts in a row, you rose to the top of the list. Thank you for the precise, concise, well thought out responses.
I forgot that I criticized RL for being a kneeler and so did my detractors when they cherry pick portions of my many posts that only suites their agenda. Thanks for bringing that back up. Although I find it very hard to see how someone can kneel on the ice for a long time, it is too taxing on the knee. Another reason to call out those who say someone , like myself , unfairly supports RL. Maybe it’s because he hasn’t “kneeled” recently on the ice.
Richie-Rich
Lehner the man isn’t someone who I hate. No one should hate another person. You hate the acts of ignorance, you can hate the misguided ire against a country that has proven time and time again that it is striving toward that dream of Martin Luther King. When someone, like Lehner, takes a misinformed stand against the Flag and the Anthem that literally stands as a foundation for Martin Luther King’s dream, then yeah, I have a problem with that. I don’t have a problem with him using his 1st amendment right, I have a problem with him not understanding and just jumping on board the BLM/ANTIFA communist train and being a lemming follower of their lies.
No, I don’t hate anyone. I vehemently oppose and hate the deeds and the ideals that are based on lies. That’s it. Period. End rant.
Galdom
I didn’t know that you called him a kneeler. I was actually referring to someone else. It doesn’t really matter so I didn’t want to mention the name.
Tim
On a move positive note I watched the USA Canada hockey game a fun game for sure. Brandan Brisson a VGK draft pick represented un nicely with a goal by the way Matty Beniers and he are leading Michigan in goals and assists ( 27 ). Yesterday’s game showed me one thing speed kills ask the Canadian team. Canada a heavy much bigger team was a favorite with the announcers and the between period commentators showing there bias. It was nice to see a game and a very exciting game at that. On the Lehner subject were going to ride him and what ever happens time will tell.
Galdom
https://mobile.twitter.com/cbcolympics/status/1492364171102597121
Nice uniforms too. USA. How about we keep Brisson and not trade him away.
THE hockey GOD
Canada’s uniforms ?? I didn’t like either, the white on white USA made it difficult to read the player’s numbers. Maybe they did that on purpose to keep the other team from getting a good read on numbers
Daryl
Here’s my issue with McKenna’s statement… This has NOTHING to do with MAF. His name doesn’t need to be brought up. Whether you support RL o do not support him, it’s about RL and no other goalie
Richie-Rich
For me, the debate, the comparison, the back and forth, the stuff about the sword, the Buckner moment, all of it is in the past and completely and 100% irrelevant. Yet, time and time again it comes up again here in this forum and elsewhere as if it is still relevant.
I guess, if you are doing a goalie comparison or talking about the 2020-2021 season, then, sure it’s a relevant discussion.
I think Daryl would agree with me that the only relevant debate is the state of the goaltending in the here and the now. I predicted that the goaltending would be the weakest link this year and no one can argue that it is anything other than what it is – average – and ranked 15th out of 32 teams. Sure, the defense has been nearly as bad but not the weakest link.
We have to hope that Eichel and Martinez will bring their best performance back to the ice because we need to score more goals and play better defensively in order to cover up for the at best – average goaltending.