Goalie controversy, this is the Vegas Golden Knights. Golden Knights, goalie controversy. It’s been six months in the making, but the time has now come for you two to get acquainted with each other.
The inevitable was put into place on February 24th when the Golden Knights traded then back-up goalie Malcolm Subban for starter-to-be Robin Lehner. Despite the words of positivity coming from the front office and head coach about Fleury’s place atop the Golden Knights goalie depth chart, his role changed on that day, and it’s devolved ever since.
Today, one day before the Golden Knights begin their second round series with the Vancouver Canucks, what went from a potential hazard lurking in the distance stormed into the forefront and is now here to stay.
— Allan Walsh (@walsha) August 22, 2020
That’s a tweet from Allan Walsh, Marc-Andre Fleury’s long-time agent. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but this one really only needs to be worth four.
Fleury is not happy.
This isn’t a new move from the Walsh playbook though. He’s always been very active on Twitter and has even used the platform to stand up for another one of his clients in a nearly identical situation.
10 years ago, Jaroslav Halak found himself behind Carey Price. Halak was frustrated and his agent took to Twitter to voice his opinion on Halak’s behalf.
“Interesting stat of the night … Price is 10W, 32L in last 42 starts. Hmm.” tweeted Walsh.
Moments later, Montreal was figuratively lit on fire.
There was a high level of frustration from Jaro over the fact he wasn’t being given a fair opportunity to play. The goal was to create a stir while at the same time directing all the heat on me. The key was that no one blamed Jaro for what I tweeted; it was intended that way. –Walsh to The Athletic
The entire story, which can serve as a history lesson for everyone living the Vegas situation now, can be found in this article in The Athletic.
Walsh later deleted the tweet, but he still stands behind it to this day. In fact, he still frequently tweets the words “interesting stat of the day” as a joking reference to it. The moral of the story is that Halak did feel frustrated, he did want to play, and his agent wasn’t afraid to make that clear in the most public of ways while diving in front of the bullet and taking the heat all on himself.
Back to Vegas, where we now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Fleury is unhappy with the decision Pete DeBoer has made.
According to several sources: the Golden Knights met with Marc-Andre Fleury this afternoon and are satisfied this will not be an issue as they chase the Stanley Cup. I'd expect Fleury to address this with media tomorrow.
— Elliotte Friedman (@FriedgeHNIC) August 22, 2020
Allan Walsh sent the picture to express a point, but he also did it to take the heat off Fleury and put it on himself, just like he did for Halak.
When the inescapable goalie controversy eventually bubbled over, the heat never should have been on Fleury, and now that it’s here, it shouldn’t even be on Walsh.
This entire situation was created by the Golden Knights. They are the ones who fired Gerard Gallant, Mike Kelly, and Dave Prior. They are the ones who hired Pete DeBoer. They are the ones who made the decision to acquire a capable starting goalie at the deadline when they already had one. And finally, they were the ones that decided that Robin Lehner, not Marc-Andre Fleury, gave them the best chance to win the Stanley Cup.
But, like Walsh had a motive in his actions, so did the Golden Knights. George McPhee was just living up to one of his all-time favorite phrases, “the organization comes first, the individual a close second.” Quite simply, the Golden Knights are trying to win.
They made every one of those decisions because they believed it would give the organization the best chance to win 16 playoff games in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
The outcome has still yet to be written, so judgment on the decisions remains premature. But, they had to know this was coming, and now that it’s here, they better have a plan on how to deal with it. Because, if the outcome isn’t the inscribing of Robin Lehner’s name into the Stanley Cup, the collection of decisions that led up to the tweeting of a bloody sword going through Marc-Andre Fleury’s back with the name of the former San Jose Sharks head coach written on it will go down in history as one of the worst gaffes in NHL history.
Mikegron32
The sword should have his agents name on it because now there is no way VGK can play Fleury without that tweet getting the credit. He just ensured his client will be the number 2 from her on out
Dean
It’s already been established Fleury is #2 in DeBoers eyes. I dont blame the agent at all. Hes just repeating the statements of smart fans as they watch this debacle unfold.
MikeGron32
Smart fans lol. Those 2 words should never go together. I love Fleury, he’s the epitome of a class act. We wear his jersey. But I want my GM to value winning over loyalty, call me crazy. Look at what Fleury did for the Penguins and they actually bribed us to take him!! But also take a look in their rafters and see if they have something you’d like?
cmasia
Dean,
Are you 12?
Agents should never, EVER, insinuate themselves in team decisions.
It is none of his EFFING business.
Beside, MAF is guaranteed $15,000,000 over the next 2 years, so the absolute stupid ass Walsh should shut his trap and count his money.
He is now at the top of the list of the most selfish crumbs ever, insinuating his greedy fat maw into a place where it doesn’t belong.
Marsh Munroe
Shame but the attitude of i don’t care will eventually come back to haunt you. Start MAF. 1st game see what happens!!
Rob A
If GM doesn’t believe Fleury can win them a cup, doesn’t he have to answer for that extension? I don’t see how he survives as GM absent a cup this year.
cmasia
Rob A.
Really?
MAF got a 3 year extension after taking them to the Cup final in 2018, 26 months ago.
That contract was the smart idea.
Trading Subban for Lehner was even smarter.
Everyone here needs to learn a hockey team is a fluid thing.
Seriously, how happy would you be right this minute if MAF was #1 and Subban #2?
Don’t bother answering.
Daryl
You are asking how happy we are right now if MAF was #1 and Subban was #2? I’d be ecstatic! The exact same as if Lehner was #1. This is the playoffs, your backup goalie doesn’t really mean Squat
Charles
Tell that to the Colorado fans or ask Washington fans in 2018 when Gruabuer started the first two series and holtby won the cup
Daryl
Completely different scenario…. Holtby was the started for almost the entire season. He was “demoted” after a very bad long stretch where Gruabuer took over. Near the end of the season Gruabuer started to fault and he looked absolutely HORRIBLE in the playoffs. He started 2 playoff games but didn’t finish 2 games…. he gave up 8 goals. He was pulled for the regular starter Holtby who played great when he came back.
Rob A
How was the contract a good idea? You think it’s a good idea to tie up cap space and limit the future of your team based on one year performance? I didn’t have a problem with the contract if MAF was the starter. They essentially gave the backup 7 million a year. That’s a problem. They are the ones saying they made a mistake when they made Lehner the starter.
KS
The heart wants MAF (and all our favorite players) to start and play well, but often that’s not the way professional sports work. This is a business and thankfully not a 9-10 year olds co-ed team where everyone gets a chance. Chicago is still disappointed Jordan and the Bulls didn’t get a chance at 4 titles. Much of New England still thinks Brady should be behind center for the Pats. This is just the way professional sports work, and every player in the room knows this is how it works. It doesn’t mean they don’t support MAF. Fairness and what’s right aren’t in the equation, and just speaking for myself, the team doesn’t owe any explanation. Right now, the Knights are winning games, and looking great doing it.
Steph
Chicago getting 7 titles
Rob A
I meant I don’t see how GM survives as “president”
Doktor Hockey
Would this idiot agent have done this without flowers ok? It doesn’t help the team, MAF, anyone! Very disappointing. I sure hope flower had no hand in it.
@patrickmendeznv
I think the team is ok with how MAF and his agent went about it. They played exceptionally in front of MAF in his only game against Chicago.
TerBP17
Flower would NEVER have had a hand in it!!! And this is coming from a Pens fan, but even greater Fleury fan. I’m absolutely positive Marc would have shot it down had he known what Walsh was going to Tweet. I’m sure he and Walsh have discussed his disappointment as friends and professionally, but there was a NO WAY Marc would have been behind that Tweet. He’s put up with a load of crap, first in Pittsburgh, now Deja Vu in Vegas, and he will always handles it with class. Why do you think we miss him so much here in The ‘Burgh? Many of us still feel his pain.
Joe Ann Ricca
hear hear. Flower has too much class to stoop to that level. I’m sure he spoke to his agent talking out his frustration, but think this was all his agent. What I didn’t like was Flower doing the press conference. Either Walsh or DeBoer should have been on the firing line, not Flower
Linda
You are so wrong about MAF
MAF is who got you to the playoffs
You are blowing it
MAF has heart
Everyone loves MAF because is awesome and plays to win
Biggest mistake of your career with VHK
Pooh on you!!!
TerBP17
with you, Linda‼️
Jason Lanouette
So, Rask leaves the bubble. Grubauer just blew a groin or knee. VGK had a backup they had no faith in and a team that they thought could win now. How dare they go get a back-up for a goalie with a concussion history and less than stellar numbers this year?
Mikegron32
Agree with this 100% .. championship cultures aren’t built by worrying about feelings or drama. You think the Patriots worry about stuff like that? You think every team left in the bubble wouldn’t love to have VGK’s problem? Also interesting how the GM haters forget that we basically stole Stephenson and Cousins for nothing
cmasia
Mike,
Be careful.
When you say something that makes 100% sense, you are bound to get beat up! 🙂 🙂
Chris
Spot on.
Fluery has been the starter for 3 years, in part because he is one of the best goalies in the NHL, and a certain HOFer. However, he has also been the starter because his backup was Malcolm Subban.
The Knights saw an opportunity to acquire Lehner, and in their minds it has increased their chances to win the Cup.
Fans fall in love with players, but it’s up to management to give the team what it feels is its best chance to win. Fan favorites from year one, Neal, Perron, and Haula have been replaced with Pacioretty, Stastny, and Stone.
Plans for this team changed quickly, as unprecedented expansion team success lead to high expectations to win the Cup, and win it now.
Fleury has been through this before, his last two Cup years in Pittsburgh as the proof. He’s a pro, and understands the business. If and when Lehner falters, Fleury will be ready.
Rick Dames
Absolutely, Jason. Malcomb Subban had 3 1/2 seasons to develop as a back-up and didn’t deliver. It was a glaring weakness on a team with Cup ambitions; 3 1/2 great depth forward lines, and a maturing Defense that just did a Martinez add-on. Imagine if Fleury were in the Grubauer net and was out for the remainder of the playoffs, or a concussion issue, and we can only look toward Subban with Dylan Ferguson as his back-up? The goal is to get the Cup, now. The Lehner acquisition was PERFECT – an apparent rental to get us the Cup this year. This is a business, to fill 18,300 seats at top prices (whenever) and develop the highest possible demand for advertising/promotional dollars – not to sooth the feelings professional athletes.
Don
I applaud the agent’s tweet! Fleury, because he is a total team guy, too often gets the short end of the stick because of it. His play was great prior to his dad’s death in November. He understandably was shook by his father’s death in November, but guess what? Vegas came back from the pause already in the playoff’s at the number 1 spot in their div. Lehner didn’t get them their. Fleury was their guy all season. I firmly believe that the painting accurately portrays what is going on with one exception. It’s a coordinated stabbing with the VGK management also holding the sword. One thing I’ve learned over the years, when something doesn’t make sense, it boils down to dollars. This is a money decision. And for them to place their value there, over Fleury, when they built this team on not only Fleury’s stellar play, but face and voice, it’s 100% beyond shameful and NEEDED called out. Fleury has a good and loyal agent.
Roberta Kendall
Agree 100%. Time someone told the truth an stood up for flower. I will stand for flower everyday. Vegas needs to lose due to their lack of loyalty an hunger for money. A team so called based on character of which coach an management lack
cmasia
Don, may I have the chance to bring you back to earth for a minute?
You said:
“One thing I’ve learned over the years, when something doesn’t make sense, it boils down to dollars. This is a money decision.”
Can you please explain this? It’s clear you have no idea MAF is under a guaranteed contract through the 21-22 season. GUARANTEED.
Lehner has no contract and can walk after the VGK’s last game.
Following your logic, VGK should be loyal to their contract players, winning or losing be damned.
Do you understand hockey at all?
cmasia
Don, you said:
“One thing I’ve learned over the years, when something doesn’t make sense, it boils down to dollars. This is a money decision.”
You really need to explain that because there is not a hockey fan on earth who would agree with you.
Vegas owes MAF $15,000,000.
Vegas owes Lehner $0,000,000.
TerBP17
with you! Marc is oftentimes too nice and good for his own good‼️ I can totally stand behind Walsh for posting that Tweet. But I am also certain Flower had no clue he was going to do it.
Dean
Stanley Cups are won by hot goalies. Lehner may have the higher floor but Fleury has the higher ceiling. If we are to beat Colorado, we need a goalie that can stand on his head and that goalie is MAF. We may get to the conference finals with Lehner as the #1 but I’m afraid it will end there if we dont play our true #1.
cmasia
Dean,
You may be right. You may be wrong.
But do you really think Lehner is going to play everyone of the next 12 – 21 games?
That is nuts!
All of the MAF fanboys/ fangirls here think he’s been voted out of the bubble and sent back to Summerlin.
Daryl
It’s the playoffs, I expect the starting goalie to play every game of it. Now this playoffs is a little different as so many games are packed together but even still, I don’t see any swapping except for back to back games
Mike StG
This is truly unfortunate. We can only hope this doesn’t tank the morale of the team and create disruption that destroys their chemistry and focus. I think it was a mistake to start Lehner as it was bound to end up like this, and also throws Fleury’s future with the team into grave doubt. I guess we will see who the ‘starter’ is tomorrow, considering that Walsh has backed the team into a corner. We didn’t need this…
Don
should read, “Lehner didn’t get them *there”
PS. and before anyone comes at me ,as frequently happens, that I’m some new Vegas hockey fan, I’ve watched hockey for over 30 years. Marc Andre Fleury shouldn’t be sitting on anyone’s bench. His current skill, including his playoff skill, does blow anything Lehner’s done out of the water, including the small sample size the VGK has with him. And DeBoer stating that Lehner has played “at another level,” so they had to give him the net, was a bold-faced lie. Look at Lehner’s GA. Look at the fact that most recently in the playoffs VGK had to battle from behind multiple times including two-GA first periods. And from further deficits allowed by Lehner after catching the leads. This will not be as easy to do moving forward. Really not sure what “other level” DeBoer is expecting anyone to believe Lehner is playing at, but it definitely isn’t a level above Fleury. This whole situation stinks, and Walsh just made sure everyone knows that he knows. DeBoer may be a clown, as Gallant called out, and that doesn’t concern me nearly as much, as the VGK org. implementing this. For all reasons, it’s rotten of them!
Jon
MAF was 47th in save percentage and 48th in Goals Saved Above Average this year. Lehner ranked 16th and 7th respectively. Fleury’s save percentage in the playoffs last year was .886; Lehner led the league with a .936. To act like this is some insane decision from an evil madman is laughable. They are both worthy of consideration and Lehner is the way they went. They expect to be the better team most nights on the ice, so they went with the goalie who has the lower ceiling, but the higher floor. They don’t need a goalie to steal them games the way MAF can. Take emotional attachments out of it, and it’s not a terrible decision. Lehner just turned 29 and Fleury is about to turn 36. I totally get people not liking the move, but what I don’t understand is people acting like Lehner isn’t worthy and that MAF doesn’t come with his own flaws.
Jon
Misspoke a little. Fleury had a .909 save percentage in the playoffs last year. The .886 is from his two games this year. Lehner’s is .904 thus far this postseason.
Mitch Beverly
To me, it was basically a coin flip. Some are saying that Lehner has outplayed Fleury and that really is not true. Lehner has played well, but he has not been stand on his head fabulous. Fleury lost the coin flip. He could definitely get the top job back if Lehner stumbles, but to see an agent undermine his client and his team the night before a playoff game is ruthless.
Daryl
Sometimes people put too much stock in stats…. And this comes from a huge stats man. MAF had a stretch this season where he was going thru some personal stuff and he looked really bad. It was obvious he wasn’t on his game, or anyone else’s. Vegas also went thru a stretch where they brought up some younger defenseman and also rotated their defense. Those things led for lower numbers for MAF… And Subban for that matter. I’m not saying MAF deserves to start over Lehner but I don’t know if Lehner deserves to start over MAF either. At this point I think it’s nothing more than a personal choice the the coach
DEAN
The shame is this will affect the organization for years. We had developed a reputation as an organization that players wanted to play for. It’s why we’ve been able to negotiate long term deals with the core of the team. However, players are going to look at this situation now before anyone else signs multiple year deals to be a Golden Knight. If we are willing to backstab a legend like Fleury, the team will do it to anyone and no one wants to be the next unjust casualty.
Steph
Theyve already been backstabbing .if anyone thinks JM and WK AND RS .were ok with them handing out overblown contracts and making WK go prove himself when Patch had an awful first yr and Tuch has not done squat until now for 2 yrs been invisible or hurt .the stabbing started with screwing season ticket holders then players etc
DEAN
I honestly have no problem with the way they made Wild Bill prove himself a second season. He came here with an unproductive career to that point and handing out large contracts after one good season is dangerous. Fleury is a different situation though. He has a long career filled with success and has been the face of the franchise since the expansion draft. Don’t be surprised if you see other players on this team ask for a trade after this season though if they dispose of Marc. He is loved by all his team mates and they will all be disappointed.
cmasia
Really?
Are you being serious?
Do you think there is one player in any sport who says, “Oh, I like these guys. They are so loyal and so nice. I’ll get a blanket and a pillow and won’t have to think about anything else”.
Did anyone think they were backstabbed when Mark Stone crashed the team and shook up the lineup?
The amount of delusion in this entire comment section is….. well, it’s delusional!
Daryl
When players’ contracts are over and they start looking for a new home,they look for teams that have a good chance to win it all, they look for what kind of money they are going to get, and YES they look at how a team treats their players. You can’t simply say it’s delusional that players don’t cate about loyalty from its organization. My comment is about loyalty in general not about the goalie situation
Paul T
You said “where we now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Fleury is unhappy”. You don’t prove that anywhere in the article. You can’t show the agents words and say that they match Fluery’s. They might, but that’s a big assumption. You alluded to a probability that Fluery may feel that way, but only did it with some very circumstantial evidence. There is a goalie controversy but it is fan and media driven. Don’t blame that on loose and weak evidence.
Mike StG
Paul, Fleury’s agent posted it, not the fans or the media. I do agree it’s not provable that Fleury personally feels that way, but his agent obviously does.
Paul T
Yeah but the media and fans have been egging this on ever since Lehner got the start in game 1 against Chicago. And this article is all about how Fleury feels with absolutely zero quotes from Fleury or the team. This article, and the agents tweet are perfect examples of the fans and media making a goalie controversy. His agent is not him and media members should not assume otherwise, until they get actual facts to support their comments.
Coyote
I feel lost in all this is Lehner. None of this is his fault, and I know he is doing his best to win games. It is a bad place in this mess he has been thrust. For all the people saying sports are a business, etc. That doesn’t mean players are robots.
Steph
thats true .its not Lehners fault .
This is managements win at all costs fault
You dont run over the people that got you to where you are period .The Stanley Cup is the ultimate prize but if you cant look at yourself in the mirror and have no one you can trust arounf you 5 yrs from now .who cares
cmasia
Hi, Steph.
You said:
“This is managements win at all costs fault”
Um, why are we playing?
To entertain you?
Or to win?
This is not like Elton John playing the same show every night and getting paid.
Every single person in the VGK organization is being paid to WIN.
Nothing else.
Will it work? We don’t know.
Will it backfire? We don’t know.
If you really are a fan, you are a fan of the organization, not a handful of people you have a crush on.
Harsh? Yup.
Welcome to sports.
Steph
Please i dont have a crush on anyone .Im fine with win at all costs except FOR LYING BLATANT LYING .and its been going on for awhile .and you dont know my experience firsthand and im not wanting to share .ill just say its a bad habit
Steph
Cmasia you sound like a relative of the late Jerry Krause
“Organizations win championships”
We all know how that went dont we ?
Mike StG
Ken, do you think Foley is behind this? The changes are obviously not all DeBoer’s doing. Head coach, goalie coach, trading away Subban, acquiring Lehner as a ‘just in case’ option, and now this. GM & KM brought in Lehner and basically told everyone he was ‘insurance’. They have to be behind or at least supportive of the current situation and today they publicly stated that they’ve discussed it with Fleury and it won’t an issue in this cup run. Just wonder if maybe Foley is driving the issue?
Ken Boehlke
Mike: It’s absolutely a fair question. I have no indication to believe anything beyond the head coach was. But truthfully I cannot say one way or the other even on that.
Mike StG
Let us know if and when you find out. 🙂 If anyone can get to the truth you can!
Dean
I don’t think Foley is behind this at all. He seems to be the type that hires people he believes in and lets them do the job. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if GM and KM had more of a backup position in mind for Lehner when they acquired him. It could have been a conspiracy between the three of them and Foley could clean house after this season if the plan backfires as it seems to be doing.
Chares
Exactly and there are plenty of GM candidates and Head Coaches available. They just hired Deboer so he in not going anywhere so would they for McPhee if we Shhet the bed in the next round? Yes I think Foley would
Stephen Cupp
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Does anyone know how long DeBoer’s contact is. Remember Gallant when he was fired had more time with the Knights then any other coach in the division.
Charles
Exactly and there are plenty of GM candidates and Head Coaches available. They just hired Deboer so he in not going anywhere so would they for McPhee if we Shhet the bed in the next round? Yes I think Foley would
cmasia
Based on your “theory”, what’s Foley’s angle here?
He owes MAF 15,000,000 GUARANTEED dollars, and owes Lehner a roll of tape.
Lehner fell in the VGK lap because the Hawks were not going to sign him. And they were sellers at the deadline.
An NO ONE can argue Getting Lehner for Subban was a bad idea.
McPhee, McCrimmon , and DeBoer are being paid to win, not to coddle the “fans” who, not surprisingly, are showing themselves to be theater goers, not fans.
Mike StG
As unlikely as it probably is, I have to wonder if Fleury told GM/KM that he was going to call it quits after this year and that’s why they brought in Lehner. I only say this because it seems somewhat out of character the way they appear to be treating Fleury, as well as how this impacts his future with the team. Think of some of the other actions they took: found a place for Hunt in MN where his wife’s family is from, gave Deryk a contract when they probably should have passed, made sure Gusev ended up somewhere he could play, tried to accommodate Neal (per Foley) on a new contract. Treating their franchise and most beloved (by fans) player this way just because it MIGHT give them a very slight improved chance to win – well, just something feels “off” about it.
Stephen Cupp
Yes, there is something off. It started when they promoted McCrimmon. The way they handled Gallant’s firing and Pete’s hiring. Then the lie about Dave Prior. Then this.
Tim
In our third year in the middle of a tournament Fleury I’m sure new his agent was tweeting that picture. It makes me sad that Fleury the face of the franchise would stoop to this ploy to what shake up and divide the team for his own glorification. Lehner is just along for the ride and he’s in the middle of this bull-shit through no fault of his own. It just makes me sick trying to strong arm the coach for there selfish reasons. This is a turning point in Knights history and it won’t be for the better.
Michael westen
Tim, what?? First of all, the picture was sent out by Fleurys agent, not Fleury himself, and secondly, it hasn’t been confirmed if the agent acted on his own. I don’t think Fleury is the type of person or player that would put himself before his team. If you read the article fully, then you would have understood that point. We get it, you don’t like Fleury and want him off the team
Tim
Michael I think now after Fleury wouldn’t answer the question twice if he ok’d the post that he new. He put himself ahead of the team and that’s a fact so now everything is up in the air including his contract for the next 2 years.
Roberta Kendall
Hey tiny Tim. In America we are innocent til proven guilty Are you flower s judge an jury. You’re probably not even a Vegas fan. Vegas will not win the cup for screwing . Justice is From God
Tim
Roberta Tiny Tim happens to be 6’7″ and I’ve lived in Vegas since 1965 so don’t write a check you can’t cash. A fan of the Knights of coarse but all that’s not the issue. The issue is he’s stired a hornets nest in the middle of the playoffs with Fleury’s permission or not bottom line.
cmasia
Roberta,
This may be news to you…
T-Mobile is not a church, and hockey has eff all to do with justice.
In your insular world, the VGK should have done nothing to improve their team, and then, even worse, deploy the team in a way to maximize their chance of winning. Shame on them.
PS: Nice job diminishing Tim with your totally inappropriate adjective. You’re lucky it’s 2020, because in today’s world, I’m not allowed to tell you what I really think about you..
Richard Santomauro
Look, Chicago was the last seed in the West and scored 11 goals. In game 3 in OT a shot hit the crossbar which easily could have been the game winner. They win game 3 and who knows where we are it. Sure, Lehner has better stats and a good W-L record. I am still not convinced that Lehner is the “guy”, but I’m not the coach. One thing I do know, we are definitely going to get the answer to this goalie question likely sooner than later.
cmasia
I am going to make the most sexist comment of all time, but the numbers will bear me out.
Here, and on other platforms, women are way more upset about Lehner playing over Fleury than men.
Why?
Yes, Fleury has been the face of the team since it was born.
Yes, he’s been very good.
Yes, he is GOD here in Vegas.
But this is not like Edith Bunker coming in to sing for a Celine Dion show.
This is about winning and losing.
Nothing else.
Time will tell if the VGK have made the right decision, but please stop saying MAF “deserves” anything, or VGK “owes” MAF anything.
It doesn’t work that way.
Once again, I defy anyone here to say they were upset when Subban left and Lehner came in.
You can’t have it both ways.
ALarssen
I’m a woman and I love both goalies. I want us to win and I think Panda can help us. It’s the coach’s decision. For the record, I also love Subban because he signed an autograph for my kid and was kind and wonderful. But I obviously didn’t trust Subban to win when necessary.
As to your “sexist” claim, woman are much less likely to comment in these forums, so your claim is incredibly unscientific. I personally have many female friends who know (some even play) hockey and they understand exactly why Panda is starting right now.
If women are just inherently stupid and don’t know hockey in your world, maybe you’re attracting the wrong company.
Steph
Thank you !! Yea thats a dumb comment .Lehner was a great pick up .That isnt what im talking about .Its the consistent b.s.
And Fleury never even got a shot wtf !
I mean if he got hurt or didnt play well in the playoffs .THATS why supposedly we got Lehner . Both goalies are excellent .the problem stems from all the crud thats been going on with a whole lot of things .
So emasia or whomever you are .you can shove your sexist attitude
Stephen Cupp
We and MAF deserve the truth. VGK owes that to us. So yes there is something that MAF deserves and VGK owes.
Tim
If I was Lehner and Fleury was involved I’d use the Virus card and tell the Knights I fear for my family and I’m opting out. That way you end the controversy and Fleury can play every game. Makes all the ladies happy and personaly I feel the damage is done so it won’t matter. I feel sorry for Foley class act treats everyone first class and he needs this shit. George and Kelly are why were at where we are after 3 years and to call them backstabbers or incompetent is just ludicrous. Believe me right now they’ve got speech writers working on Fleury’s response for tomorrow. It’s going to be a big mistake and that sword through Fleury was just an illusion. Right now Vancouver is licking their chops knowing any and every mistake by either of our goaltenders will produce a see I told you so.
Stephen Cupp
Foley may be a class act, but Pete DeBoer is not. Remember it was Pete that told everyone that Dave Prior was taking a new job when he was just fired. He’s also the one saying that they both will play when that doesn’t look to be true. If Pete came out and said Fleury will only play on back to backs and be the backup otherwise then fine, but to say we have 2 #1’s and to not play them like you have 2 #1’s is a lie.
B
“When you pull on that jersey, you represent yourself and your teammates. And the name on the front is a hell of a lot more important than the one on the back! Get that through your head!”
Herby Widmer
It made perfect sense to start Lehner against his former teammates. It makes perfect sense to start Fleury against Vancouver. If he does not perform switch to Lehner. We have two tip tier goalies. Not using this as an advantage and play both makes no sense at all.
Steph
Agreeeeee !!!! Herby .Just use both goalies and end the controversy
Mike StG
Cmasia, don’t twist my words. I asked a question, I didn’t propose a theory. Foley wants to win, and was okay with all the changes they made this year. Starting Lehner is a change from what Vegas mgmt said publicly when they acquired him, which is that he was basically insurance IN CASE something happened to Fleury. Well, NOTHING happened to to Fleury, so what changed? They can always trade Fleury (and his $15MM contract), which almost seems inevitable if their goalie deployment doesn’t change to include Fleury starting more than just in b2b scenarios. I mean, how can they ask him to carry the load as #1 goalie for the next 2 seasons after sitting him through the playoffs? Obviously they want to win, and we fans want them to win as well. But it’s legitimate to wonder or ask why PDB is making goalie decisions that do not match what GMKM previously said.
Jake
If Fleury had a better year, there wouldn’t be an issue.
You play your best players most of the time, or you get fired.
This isn’t a nursery school.
Mart
“You play your best players”
Then why is Lehner starting?
Stephen Cupp
Before yesterday’s game if you took into account the exhibition game Fleury had a better GAA then Lehner.
Steph
Im sorry .did you miss something this year ? This isnt even close to the same team Fleury was unfortunate to have playing in front of him earlier this yr or last . Oh yea thats right .He never got the opportunity to have vgk2.0 in front of him so he didnt have to bail their asses out
Mart
I’m shocked SHOCKED to learn #NotMyCoach is starting #NotMyGoalie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
knights fan in minny
this is not the time for the agent to speak up he should have kept his mouth shut plain and simple
Mrdirtlawyer
Don’t overlook the role of the owner here. After investing more than a half billion in this franchise, and then getting an early taste of success followed by a bitter 2nd year playoff exit, he’s made it clear that getting a Cup is first, last and foremost to him. The front office had to know that by trading for Lehner this controversy would inevitably result and was surely discussed with the owner. The trade for Lehner and and all the baggage that was to be expected, which has now come to be, doesn’t go down without his approval.
Doktor Hockey
OMG, this shit is so exhausting. Game 1, series 2, TODAY! GO KNIGHTS GO!!!!!!!!!!!
knights fan in minny
your so right dok drop the puck lets go
Daryl
I personally don’t see this affecting the team at all. These are professional adult athletes. It’s not like this goalie controversy started with this pic. I have no doubt there are players on this team who think MAF should be starting just as they’re are some who think Lehner should be. This picture doesn’t change anything. As a player you want to win and it doesn’t matter if the person you think is starting or not
Eric
Apparently I sent a profanity laced tweet to Fleury’s agent last night and got blocked for 12 hours on twitter. Something about wishing harm on someone or inciting others to harm them. Lol. First time for everything. Had just gotten back from PT’s, guess I wasn’t happy about his stupid tweet.
Tim
Listen to any hockey talk show TV or Radio and everyone is in agreement that Lehner should start. Why would that be the consensus if it wasn’t true? Of coarse you posters know more then them and in our world you must play fair and give everyone a chance to play. Let me say this if Fleury didn’t fire his agent today then he’s guilty simple as that.
Doktor Hockey
Wow Tim, we are of one mind sometimes. A) – MAF fires his low-life agent, and I feel much better. OR B) – He doesn’t and I am sick that he would have gave ok for that. To Lehner: This is not on you. Play your game. You are respected by the team, and yes you ARE loved here in this town by the real fans. Just play hard boys, you can win this thing!!!!
The Noodle King
Tim, you gotta do some more research on the relationship between Flower and Walsh. Flower considers him like family. Maybe even more so since losing his father last year. No way does Flower fire Walsh and no way did Walsh blindside Flower with this. This is a pure and simple strategic move by a very smart and capable agent. 100%.
Christopher J Lovett
My family does dumb shit all the time without consulting me. Just because he’s “family” means absolutely nothing.
Tim
A smart move at the beginning of round 2? First off in sports there’s no I in team next Fleury didn’t answer twice when asked if he knew about the tweet next Bill Foley went to West Point and Honor is one of the most important qualities. Do you really think what happened was Honorable? Fleury will be gone next year you can count on that it and it’s a terrible way to end his stay in Vegas. Believe me I’ve read all the stories on there relationship and I’ve also read from people in the know that say no way Fleury didn’t OK the post which tells me it’s not team first it’s me first and the team be damned.
Stephen Cupp
I read somewhere (I think it was the Athletic) that Fleury and Lehner were laughing about this whole situation.
Christopher J Lovett
Ken, I wish you knew more about hockey and could actually comment and write intelligently about this stuff.
1. Fleury’s agent is a douche that released info without MAF’s permission.
2. Any player on that team is happy to win the cup whether they ride the bench or contribute. Which, by the way, Pete has never said Fleury won’t contribute. He’s only said the player that gives us the best chance to win is in the ice. Could he Fleury this whole round. We don’t know.
3. MAF won the cup twice in this same fashion. Does his name get removed because he’s on the bench? No. Still there. In alphabetical order.
4. Stick to making dumb videos in your mom’s basement. You speaking is slightly more intelligible than your writing.
The Noodle King
“intelligible” Is that even a word?
And if Ken’s writing sucks so bad, why are you even here?
Christopher
in·tel·li·gi·ble
I know it’s tough for some of Ken’s fans to understand big words, so I’ll leave the definition here:
Intelligible
/inˈteləjəb(ə)l/
adjective
able to be understood; comprehensible.
“this would make the system more intelligible to the general public”
And you’re correct, I rarely read Ken’s stuff because it is rarely intelligible (see how I was able to use that in a sentence). I just felt the need to comment because so many sheep fall in line with what Ken has to say. There are much more intelligent (different word than intelligible, I’ll let you look that one up) views out there.
It’s a challenge to get through most of his articles. I normally don’t read them, but a friend begged me to read it and provide a response, so here I am stuck in a loop of nonsense.
Doktor Hockey
I think he’s here, like a lot of us … to see if one day all of Ken’s negative crap. disappears like a fart in the wind. Probably bot!
Doktor Hockey
Good question NK Pasta … I’m an old man homebound, so I have lots of time to visit sites. Unfortunately, most days I leave this place with my enthusiasm for the knights killed that day!
Mike StG
Christopher, I disagree with Ken on many things, but also appreciate what he says and does as the most consistent VGK fan website. I get my info from many sources and have the option to stop listening to any of them at any time. You have the same right. If you don’t think what Ken says is of any value then unsubscribe or unfollow SinBin. Your insulting opening comments and #4 are not necessary to have a discussion. Ken doesn’t need me to defend him, but I thought this was worth saying.
Christopher
You’re right, it was insulting. As insulting as Ken insinuating the coach is responsible for any of this. I guess I’m just bored on Sunday before the game. I’ll stop hurting poor Kenny’s feelings. I don’t want his mom to get mad.
Doktor Hockey
Ha ha , good one!
Stephen Cupp
The coach is responsible for this. He’s the one out there saying both of them will get plenty of playing time when it’s not true. He was also the one that told us that Dave Prior was moving to a different role instead of saying he was relieved of his duties (fired).
Pete Turner
I agree. If VGK were to falter in this series I would put the blame on not just MAF’s agent but for all you media reporters that put hyping a non-existent issue just for readership points. I hope you feel good about yourself. Drop your fan card on the way out you 2 bit ambulance chasing sorry excuse for a reporter. What do you gain by making up this crap or adding fuel to an imaginary fire? Dividing the fan base? Dividing the team? What exactly is your purpose here? Don’t you see that the only ones benefiting from this controversy is the opposing team?? I’m not saying it didn’t happen but we should call it what it is. A desperate act by MAF’s soon to be ex-agent who being selfish, put the welfare of his client above the team. That is what the narrative should be.
Doktor Hockey
Right on Pete
Pete Turner
Come on you people of Las short term memory loss. How many of you wish that we had someone to back up MAF when we were down 4-0 in Game 4 against Washington Capitals? It’s not about stats, it’s not about loyalty. Sometimes you go with the guy with the hot hand/hot stick/hot glove. Those of us in the casino business understands this. It’s an intangible. You can’t measure it but it exists. Puck Luck is a major factor and if it takes a goalie change to fix it, I’d go with that rather than have no choice when the writing is on the wall. Back to 2010 Stanley Cup run. Antti Niemi wasn’t suppose to start for the Hawks. The starter was Cristobal Huet and his backup was a solid rookie from Rockford Ice Hogs Corey Crawford. But the guy that was hot was a 3rd stringer from Finland that saw ice time because Crawford was busy at Rockford. Guess who won the Cup that year?
Christopher
Well said, Pete. I agree wholeheartedly.
Stephen Cupp
Then DeBoer should say that instead of saying we have 2 #1’s and not playing it like he has 2 #1’s.
knights fan in minny
how about series predictions VGK in 6
Mike StG
Minny, Hope I’m wrong but I think this kerfuffle will severely affect Vegas’ play – so, VAN in 6. And again hope I’m wrong but think tonite may end up a VAN blowout, 5-1. Hope like hell that I’m wrong about all of it.
Pete Turner
Look what happen with the goalie in net for Colorado. Boy I bet they wish they had our goalie controversy. It ain’t a thing unless we make it one. So everyone needs to be on the same page and just say we love that we have the BEST goalie tandem in Stanley Cup history and we are stronger for it. All you detractors want us to take a side on this fake-news goalie controversy are in for a huge disappointment. It ain’t a thing and it’s a blessing, not a curse.
Mike StG
Pete, I agree with your statement that having both Lehner & Fleury is a good thing. Although, COL might not be the best example as Francouz has been lights out this season. Maybe TBL losing Vasy is a better comparison. However, at least in my opinion the way Vegas has contradicted their own statements is puzzling. The so-called controversy is not a media or fake news or fan creation. It morphed into a public controversy when Fleury’s agent posted that photo. So let’s put the responsibility where it should be. Really bad move by Walsh and ill-timed.
Pete Turner
I agree but it’s hardly MAF’s fault even though he called a press conference to “own” it but that’s why he’s a class act and we in LV have nothing but love for him. That being said, VGK will win because our players can unleash their offensive power when they are confident that whoever is in between the pipes, has our net secured. Not worrying about the goalie is the first step to winning a playoff game. Having to second guess if the goalie needs help will end this run. Go Knights Go!
Joanne Morrison
MAF has the heart and the skill! End of story. All else is mumbo jumbo. A tweet is a tweet. It does not determine an official decision. MAF should not be stabbed in the back REGARDLESS! Hes earned the right. let it be his!
Stephen Cupp
I’m tired of Pete’s lies. If Lehner is the #1 then fine state that. Don’t go around saying we have 2 #1’s when it’s clear in Pete’s mind we don’t. Just like when Pete lied about Dave Prior being fired.
That said if the Knights win the cup I hope Fleury gets to be the one to accept it from Gary Bettman.