When the Behind the Vegas Ice television show was first announced it was dubbed a docu-drama, not a documentary. I wondered what that meant, but after watching Episode 2, I now know.
Late in the episode there is a scene discussing the trademark denial and how the organization is handling the issue. Feel free to judge for yourself, but despite the team claiming otherwise, to my untrained eye, the scene is staged, and possibly even scripted.
**Video from Behind The Vegas Ice, Episode 2. Aired by Cox Communications, Produced by Levy Productions. In conjunction with Vegas Golden Knights.**
**For full clip go to BehindtheVegasIce.com, Episode 2, start at 23:11.**
(Camera pointed at an empty door, enter Kerry Bubolz, Vegas Golden Knights Team President. Enters into the office of Peter Sadowski, Chief Legal Advisor, sitting behind a cluttered desk and a pair of computer screens.)
BUBOLZ
Hey Peter, normally I’d say happy Friday, but I don’t know if you’ve seen the latest version of the Review Journal here, but the sports section… this thing is not going to go away.
(Bubolz sits down a copy of the RJ with the headline “Amateur hour needs to end in Las Vegas”) [Here is that article]
SADOWSKI
Well, we’ll just have to defend our name, and I’m really confident we’ll keep it.
(The scene continues into a game of Sadowski quizzing Bubolz on professional team names that are shared with collegiate ones. Chicago/Baylor Bears. Philadelphia/Boston College Eagles. On and on they go, playing the game.)
SADOWSKI
The one I really like, the Grizzlies, Memphis Grizzlies
(Sadowski removes his glasses, cracks a wry smile)
SADOWSKI
University of Montana.
SADOWSKI
This is not going to go anywhere, and once we respond to the trademark office, and we’ll make a nice response quickly, this will get resolved. It’s not something we should worry about.
BUBOLZ
Ok, then I’ll get with the business team and let them know that it’s business as usual, and we’ll start getting ready for next October.
(End Scene)
The official word from the team.
We are pleased with the passionate fan response to Behind the Vegas Ice. While docudramas do allow for reenactments of actual events, this was not one of them. It was a real-time conversation that occurred between our team president and chief legal counsel. With each episode, we will continue to show the inner workings of our organization, on both the hockey operations side and the business side. -Nehme Abouzeid, Senior VP and Chief Marketing Officer
That was a real-time conversation? I guess I could be wrong, but to me, that sure looked like a staged conversation to me. It definitely wasn’t behind the scenes, it was just a scene and it was a clear attempt to control the message about the situation, right smack in the middle of what everyone watching thought was a real life documentary about the creation of a real life hockey team. To be fair, there is a part of this that’s on us, they did call it a docu-drama, but it was being mascaraed as something completely different.
Behind the Vegas Ice will provide a behind-the-scenes look at the Vegas Golden Knights. -Cox Communications Press Release
With this show, they’ll get an up-close look at the realities of putting together a pro sports team. -The Creator (in press release)
Documenting the creation of the team, the behind the scenes footage, of not just Bill, but all the team that’s involved in bringing this team to fruition. There’s a lot of behind the scenes and exclusive things that fans have not seen and will not see anywhere but this show. -Nehme Abouzeid, Chief Marketing Officer to SinBin.vegas
We’ve created a documentary that promises to make our town and sports fans proud of its first professional sports franchise. -Mike Parisi, Vice President of Cox Media (in press release)
At different points I’d also heard it compared to HBO’s 24/7. It’s not.
This isn’t the story of the genesis of a hockey team. It’s a utopic story of the perfect hockey team told through the lens of the perfect owner, in the perfect city, where nothing goes wrong, and everyone is happy. And that is a sign of a much bigger problem with the organization.
They are attempting to control the message being sent out through propaganda techniques. Rather than show the real life meeting about the trademark situation, in which there is likely actual concern voiced, we get an episode of Dora the Explorer where Swiper steals Dora’s backpack and Boots sings a song to explain to the 4 year old viewer that stealing is bad.
Ask anyone, hockey fan or not, about the possibility of the team having to change their name, and many will admit there’s at least a small chance (59% in our poll). Yet rather than being truthful and honest, we’re fed an allegedly (again, you be the judge) made up interaction that may have even been written by someone not even appearing in the scene.
What makes sports great is drama. They are the greatest soap opera in the world. When a Game of Thrones episode ends with Ned getting his head chopped off we all gasp, but quickly realize, the show is fiction. Enthralling, but fake. When a hockey player misses a wide open net in overtime of the Stanley Cup Finals Game 7, that’s real life. It’s real heartache, there’s real triumph, that’s why sports are the most popular form of entertainment on the planet.
The problem is the fact that there’s a controlled message. Whatever is best for the team, best for PR, best for The Creator, is what is shown. When there’s a misstep, it’s either ignored (#VideoGate) or it’s allegedly reenacted to take out the realism we actually want to see. Controlling the message means cheating the fans of the real story, especially when a show is promised to go “behind the scenes.”
Is this being done because they are afraid of losing the fan base? Because there’s a certain level of embarrassment that’s been associated with the team? Because they believe Vegas fans are so new to professional sports that we won’t be smart enough to notice the difference?
Whatever it is, it may work for now, especially in a TV show that most can’t watch, but in the long run it will destroy the fan base. It will upset and anger fans, and they’ll begin to lash out. It’s already happened a bit, and that was over a video not playing on the big screen.
That situation was handled perfectly. “We’ll be a lot better than that on the ice,” the Creator said. Bingo. Acknowledge the mistake, demand more, and move on.
The exact opposite is happening with the trademark situation. It’s being swept under the rug, being made out to be a non-starter. When in fact, a majority of the fan base thinks there’s at least a slight chance it’s a big enough issue to cause the team to change it’s name.
What’s going to be the controlled message when the team loses it’s first 15 games of the season? What will be the message when their first overall draft pick is mysteriously absent from morning skate? I’d keep going down the slippery slope into drugs, gambling, and whatever else people think players are going to do in Las Vegas, but I think you get my point.
This particular situation is just a two minute scene in a TV show that featured 28 minutes of otherwise great material, but it’s a sign of a bigger trend.
Honesty is not the policy when documentaries are called docu-dramas. Amateur hour is definitely not over in (Las) Vegas.
Slack
“Be sure to drink your Ovaltine” Ovaltine? A crummy commercial?
James
@Ken Boehlke
‘What’s going to be the controlled message when the team loses it’s first 15 games of the season? What will be the message when their first overall draft pick is mysteriously absent from morning skate? I’d keep going down the slippery slope into drugs, gambling, and whatever else people think players are going to do in Las Vegas, but I think you get my point.’
It has been speculated that the franchise will leak the expansion draftees to a member of the local media in a attempt to curry favour. It would be quite the scoop if Steve Carp broke the news before Bob McKenzie, Darren Dreger, Pierre LeBrun etc
I just hope that Foley doesn’t hire a couple of homers to call the games on television. Hire somebody objective like Gary Thorne.
Ken Boehlke
Based on what you are reading in this article, what type of announcers are you expecting? I’m with you, I want honestly, I want truth, I want reality. I don’t do well with controlling what people are allowed to say about things. It’s why this site exists, and it’s why this article appears here. Hopefully our message is received, because it’s an important one.
Mickey B
Well, that was extremely awkward. Every time I try to embrace this team, they find a way to wake me up and deal with the reality that they really have no idea what the hell they are doing. Saying that scene was actual dialogue is an outright lie. I have seen better acting in 4th grade plays. This franchise continues to baffle me at every step.
Like I’ve mentioned before, the unveiling gaffe was just that. It can happen and will happen in live production. Mariah Carey at New Year’s Eve, anyone? Brett & Bobby Hull dropping the ceremonial puck at the Winter Classic WITHOUT PUCKS? Bad mistakes that shouldn’t happen, but they do. But staging a scene like that? Reaches a whole different level of embarrassment in my opinion and comes across as bush league. This is an NHL team? If this was a minor league team it would be bad enough, but this is cringe worthy. Honestly, which people in the front office thought this was acceptable?
Ken, I must say that I am quite pleased you calling it like you see it with this situation. Your credibility just went through the roof in my book. This team is amateur hour, BIG TIME.
Ken Boehlke
Thanks! I really appreciate it. I promise you, I will always call it like I see it, even if it doesn’t always make the powers that be happy. This one absolutely needed to be called out.
I see that a lot of people aren’t quite grasping exactly what I’m getting at, so I think it’s time I just flat out spell it out.
If this is an acted out scene, it was done so deliberately. There’s a reason the real scene wasn’t shown. I don’t know what it is, and I probably never will, but that scene had thought behind it… just like the response we received today did as well.
Let your imagination run wild, cause what your eye sees and what your ear hears don’t match, indicating there’s more to the story, and until we get it, no theory is off limits.
Joe
Ken, I echo Mickey’s comments. My level of respect for you was already sky high because of the awesome work that you have done since day one. There is no one, and I mean no one, that has or is putting the time and effort into this thing that you have. You have been and will continue to be my only source to follow things.
After you calling them out for made up, fantasy land BS, my respect level has continued to climb for you and the site.
What has bothered me, following this whole thing from day one, having listened to I think nearly every interview that Foley has given and read likely everything that he has ever said, is that he repeatedly makes statements that don’t add up. I have given examples before in some of my posts, and won’t waste anyones time with the rehash, but there is just a lot of stuff that makes me wonder if either 1) there is some senility setting in (and this is not made to poke any fun at that because I am really hoping it is not that) or 2) that Foley doesn’t feel bound to stay consistent with anything (maybe intentionally or maybe he simply speaks before he thinks out his statements more fully). What ever it is, there has been a lot of stuff that doesn’t add up. As the face of the franchise, he has to realize that you can’t say something and expect people to forget it. Or if you do change your mind, don’t pretend that you never said it and simply say that you changed your mind.
James
@Ken Boehlke
I’ve watched a lot of hockey broadcasts over the past few years. Naturally the local broadcasts lean more towards the home team in terms of content. You can see a noticeable difference between a national broadcast and a local broadcast. Some local broadcasts are more homerish than others.
I don’t want to see the announcers wearing Golden Knights polo shirts. I want to know if a Golden Knight defenseman threw a pizza up the middle leading to the opposition scoring a goal.
MJS
Definitely staged & might have been scripted. But it’s not the end of the world on this series – The series is a team PR series after all.
My main concern with the process is what type of TV deal will the team have and will there be the possibility of a regional sports channel like Fox Sports San Diego – FSSD only has Padres games and SDSU Aztec sports along with maybe some USD sports.
Would a regional sports channel work with 82 NHL games + Pre/Post season games, UNLV football, basketball & baseball and even CSN Coyote sports and PCL 51’s AAA baseball and perhaps some local HS sports
Tom
I felt like a Kardashian was gonna walk thru. Yeah that was staged big-time hahaha. Thank God that cameraman just happened to be there ready to capture that pivotal moment. They forgot their lines though and started talking over each other.
CaptainJohn
Good call on this Ken. It wouldn’t be the first time that the fans have been BS’d by this group. It’s not just the fans either. It seems that the military was a little blind-sided by the name and theme. I have a lot of respect for the Army and those who serve, and I’m not buying a stitch of Golden Knights stuff until I hear an official affirmation from Army.
Phisig150
Wow… just wow. I’ve seen better acting in Ron Jeremy films. Sometimes the response to something is worse than the act itself. Everything about the name has been pretty embarrassing so far and the sad thing is it all could have been easily avoided or at the very worse quickly fixed. But Foley and his people keep completely dropping the ball, put their foots in their mouth, and make blunder after blunder. Is this finally the last one? At this rate I’m almost half expecting that they will really have to change the name after all.
Murrayyyyy
I’ll offer the other side. Of course it’s staged. EVERY show is staged. For the most part, the news is staged. Like reporters who interview people after something happens, there just isn’t a reason to constantly have people filming every second of the day for an attorney for the club.
This should have been understood from the start. Just go back and look at the first episode. It says there is a producer/writer credit for Jacquie Levy (of Levy Productions Group in town).
I guess the real question is did the conversation happen? I’m sure it did. Not word for word but I’m sure it happened. I’d imagine it like this. The convo did happen with more “Who the fuck is Ed Graney and what the hell does he know about trademark laws” than what we were presented in the video. The Levy’s, needing something to talk about for a 9 series piece, decided to have this recreated as it’s the only thing anyone is talking about with the franchise (just look at the RJ’s coverage so far). Of course they are going to seem polished and have cut away shots, just like any other produced piece.
Let’s be honest, that logo unveiling is exactly how it went down, right? The countdown, the fireworks, the logo revealing on time. That’s how it went said no one. The only people who will remember how horrible it was will be locals and even they will forget. Everything will be heavily edited your way when you get to document your own history.
But let’s talk about some of the positive parts of the episode. Did you see the other mocked logos in there? I think we ended up with the best out of the lot there. It was around the 4:50 mark. You can see how the V was a big idea from the start. The face of the Knight on the right is a V. That horrific shield looking logo with Vegas on a V and the 2 different colored sections with a *. All the different variations of the V in the mask. I could watch a whole episode on that but I don’t think it will be talked about until a trademark is issued.
Odds are that was going to be episode 2 until the trademark issue came up so they did the revisionist conversation instead and scrapped talking about the logo process more.
Ken Boehlke
I actually had a paragraph in the article originally explaining the difference between what we are seeing in this scene and what is a normal staged situation in a show like this. The best example is the previous episode in the board room with McPhee and his staff. The cameras were of course told there was a meeting going on, they were there, and they showed what happened in that meeting strategically muting the sound when something sensitive was being talked about. This scene was not that. This was a re-do. The original conversation may or may not have gone very similar to what was shown in that scene, but the different angles, the perfectly folded newspaper, the quiz, the “we’ll just get prepared for October” line, it was all so obvious. What it tells us (and the denial from the team confirms) is that the real conversations about the trademark were unairable. If it possible it’s because there were a bunch of F bombs floating around? Sure. But it’s also possible it’s because the conversations didn’t go down that way. There was likely some argument over it. I’m sure not every single person in the building has the same 100% optimistic attitude about the situation. Doing what they did leaves it open for debate, and worse, interpretation. The series is called a Docudrama, this was the chance to actually show some drama. Instead they went with the 6th grade definition of drama, and honestly, the acting was better at my school’s performance of Romeo and Juliet.
Murrayyyyy
I think it’s more along the lines of they have 4 camera guys working on this project and I’m not even sure they are dedicated cameramen just to this project. I think they will be at “events” to get as much filmed as possible but the odds of cameras following every one of the 70ish employees around are slim to none. Anything you see that isn’t event related will be re-staged and shot multiple times for editing.
Do you really think Adidas/SLD delivered one box of tees on Nov 21st and that was gonna fill the store (like it was presented in the video). {Hint, that was staged also and probably after the fact}
I don’t think it was a factor of unairable as it was probably more a factor of they aren’t recording every single word being said in the building. I’d probably say they aren’t recording anything on a daily basis there. Odds are Levy came to them and asked if anything interesting has gone on and they tried to recreate it for the cameras.
Ken Boehlke
I guess I’ll just challenge you to watch the scene pointed it in this article and then watch basically any other scene and tell me you don’t see a difference. Plus there’s a huge difference in how you deal with insignificant stuff such as gear compared to the biggest problem the franchise has had thus far.
I do hear your point, I just don’t agree that there’s not more to this than they are leading on.
CaptainJohn
I do think that Foley intended to have a name the team poll with the depositors, but when it was time, he was aware that the result probably wouldn’t be what he wanted (Black or Golden Knights). The excuse of not enough time was bogus, especially now that we know the announcement wasn’t to happen until late November. There was plenty of time.
When you think of all the names that were tossed around during the process (Wranglers, Knights, Scorpions, Aces, Night Hawks, Desert Hawks, Outlaws, Black knights, Neon Knights, Desert Knights, Silver Knights, Golden Knights) it seems that the Vegas group went with the least popular of ALL those options, so it’s not wrong to think that a majority of the fanbase are probably hoping for a successful challenge resulting in a name change. In observing the merchandise so far, my first question is, Where’s the Red? Wasn’t a Red Rock Red supposed to be part of the team’s colours? More smoke and mirrors?
Murrayyyyy
Sure there is a difference but it’s also the only scene that isn’t from an event or a 1-on-1 interview (not including the “war room”). But you don’t hear anyone talking in that meeting (from the war room) and it was obviously staged also.
It’s going to get worse from here on out with this series. We’re on the same side of the issue with the only difference that I felt it was going to be a docu-drama from day 1 knowing how they’ve done other things.
I don’t think it’s trying to get cute around the logo. I think it’s more along the lines of us wanting a high end production series versus the reality of a mockumentry to make things looker better than expected always. Do you really believe the “creator” hoped to get a little more than 100 people for the logo unveiling after people waited for 5 months? This is the technique they are using in the mockumentry. Look how much bigger and better it was than we expected. This will be repeated over and over in this series. With the logo, with the trademark, with scouting, with the draft, etc… When you get to write your own history, this is how you do it.
PhiSig 150
I get the need to re-enact historical events that obviously we cant footage of like Civil War battles and what not. Not sure why in 2016 with cameras following the team around everywhere we can’t get actual footage of the discussions regarding the trademark. Instead of cheesy acting they should have just cut to interviews with team officials. Yet again the creatives surrounding Foley have failed miserably. And then to have the audacity to try to pass this footage off as authentic just makes this name mess worse. Foley and his people need to give Las Vegas locals a little more (or any) credit and stop lying to us. You never intended to have a name the team contest, the name has zero to do with our mining industry, and this footage is clearly a dramatic reenactment. Just be straight with us already! If you continuously lie to your fan base that fan base will turn on you real quick and you will soon be looking for a new home. Maybe you can take Dean Spanos out to dinner one night at whatever billionaire country club you’re a member of and ask him about San Diego.
Kenneth Freedman
You do know that normal people often act like complete idiots when they know they’re on camera, right?
“Amateur hour” is very accurate, as people become amateur actors in these circumstances.
A Fan
It’s amazing to me how people who are supposed to be intelligent think that lying to us is the right thing to do. Didn’t they see what happened in this last election? We’ve been fed so much BS by politicians for so long now that we voted in someone who just tells it like it is. But then I guess about half of the population would have still been ok with a business as usual person becoming President again.
So maybe the team is thinking that half of us will buy into the BS stories like why the word ‘Golden’ was used in the name, etc. If Mr. Foley had just said from the start that he is going to name the team what he wants, most of us would have probably been fine with that, great…just bring us a NHL team to Las Vegas. But when you tell us BS like a politician does when he is trying to get elected/re-elected and then not do what you said you would do after being elected, well it’s the same thing when we were all told there would be a name the team contest by season ticket holders, so come on everyone, buy season tickets! And before someone says don’t bring politics into this, I’m not. It was just the clearest similar example that I could give.
The truth is just tell the truth. You’d be amazed how well it works with us, the general public, the people who need to support this team to help make it all a success, especially if they don’t do much winning in the beginning. Simple, tell the truth.
Phisig150
I guess that’s my biggest problem with this whole name fiasco. How dumb does Foley and the rest of his front office think Las Vegas locals are? We’re just not going to buy hook, line, sinker all this bullshit you’ve been trying to sell us with the name. Apparently they take us for a bunch idiot yokles that will believe anything they tell us. I don’t think it’s too much to ask of the team to be honest and be straight with us. Give us some damn credit. It’s pretty hard to pull a fast one on us so stop trying. You guys are embarassing yourselves and our city in the process.
Ken Boehlke
Here’s the problem though, aside from this site, Brian Blessing, and Steve Carp, who is actually out there to hold them accountable. If I didn’t catch it, it would have passed without any issue. I hate to say it, because I know the readers of this site do not fall into this category, but the fan base kind of is stupid.
To be fair though, most people can’t actually watch the show. I honestly kind of feel like a fool going to bat for it now. Would have never done that is I know this is what we were going to get.
PhiSig150
I, for one, appreciate you for taking them to task for shamelessly trying to manipulate the narrative. I was going to wait for most of the episodes to roll out and then binge watch them but after reading your article I had to check it out. I thought we were going to get a real behind the scenes look into the building of the franchise. Obviously there was going to be a heavy dose of PR, some spin, and a little Hollywood doctoring but this in my opinion goes way over the line. Foley has a bunch of flunky creatives surrounding him and it’s really making him and the team look bad.
I think you’ve highlighted a ton of positive things the organization has done that might have otherwise gone unnoticed and it’s only fair if you see something negative you bring attention to that as well. Foley really owes your site (pretty much the only place to get Knights coverage) an in depth interview for the support you’ve thrown his way. You’ve been invaluable in helping him spread the word about the team and converting non NHL guys like me to the sport. I think the fans do deserve some honest answers to some tough questions regarding the naming process and then we all need to move on. I used to be a little critical of you for kind of being a cheerleader for Foley but sticking your neck out like this makes me think that this site isn’t afraid to bite the hand that feeds them regardless of the consequences. Major props to you Ken, keep up the good work. I won’t hold your promotion of the show against you. It’s not like you got an advanced copy. It could have been awesome but like with a lot of the Knights early endeavors it turning out to be a little lackluster.
Ken Boehlke
I always appreciate your support and I really appreciate the recognition that I’m not here to make friends with the org, I’m here to provide the best raw unfiltered honest coverage of a team I think is going to eventually be very popular.
Maybe they should have let me see an advanced copy, I would have screamed, GET THAT OUT! You can check my Twitter timeline, I was outraged 8 seconds into the scene.
Joe
Perfectly said, Phi. Major respect to you, Ken. Please always call it like you see it!
James
@Ken Boehlke
‘Here’s the problem though, aside from this site, Brian Blessing, and Steve Carp, who is actually out there to hold them accountable. If I didn’t catch it, it would have passed without any issue.’
I agree with you. I gather that you are originally from Chicago. The third largest media market in North America. The sports coverage in Chicago is fantastic. Culture shock? Bill Foley has brought a niche sport to a small media market. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, but kind of reminds me of Orlando. New York is a totally different animal.
PhiSig150
So Ken who is ultimately to blame for blunders like this one? It’s easy to throw all the criticism at Foley since he is the face of the franchise and the buck does stop there but I get this feeling he has this whole committee of marketing and PR people who are steering him wrong or at the very least not prepping him properly for when he speaks in public. You just can’t even hint at fan input for naming the team and not deliver. Don’t try to spin the team name as anything other than an homage to our Army ( which I think people would have fine with. Who doesn’t love our service men and women?). Do your homework first before making the declaration that locals call our city Vegas. And finally This isn’t Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Let’s nix the re-enactments and simply just have Sadowski be interviewed. You can have him say basically the same thing he did in an interview format which most of the rest of the show was anyway and it would have been fine.
Unless Foley is a complete uncontrollable wild card like Jerry Jones or to use a comparison brought up earlier in this comment section,Trump, and he is going to do and say whatever he wants regardless of what his advisors say (which it doesn’t seem like he’s that guy at all) then we need to start ripping whoever job it is that keeps failing. Ken we want names. Who are these people that are making Foley look bad or is it all on Foley?
Joe
Exactly, Phi. It feels like all our collective intelligence is being insulted with these antics, over and over again.
It feels like everything about the name was pre-meditated, with again zero input from the Valley. You have know that my biggest irritation is the leaving the LAS off. I won’t, and candidly, can’t, get over that because I am constantly reminded of it, and will be at every f’n game, until it ever gets changed and despite people saying that a rebrand to the LAS Vegas Knights is inevitable, given Foley’s repeated attitude with these things, I will believe it only after I actually see it. Right now, I get pissed off when I see articles call or stories on the local news still referring to the team as the “Las Vegas Golden Knights” or as “Las Vegas’ NHL team”.
As I said before, and you and others have too, all of this was avoidable IF, a big IF, Foley really did care about what the community thought. But, again, I am convinced that he truly believes that this will be the World’s Team, with his mastermind and his brilliant PR people, and he really doesn’t care what the locals think . . . . . those will either make this thing sink or swim. I am just not convinced that the rink is repeatedly going to be filled with fans from other teams year after year. And if that is what he was always shooting for, he has not learned his lesson from other markets like ours, ie Nashville, Tampa Bay, Carolina, etc., with that lesson being that people do not want to go a home stadium when 70 to 80 percent of the crowd is rooting against the home team. That is not an atmosphere that people want to continually sit in.
For example, when Foley and any of his PR people were, and continue to be asked the question about other fans coming to support their teams, he should have answered that they won’t be getting in because Las Vegas fans will be the ones in all the seats. I’d be pounding the message as loud as I could saying “Not in our f’n house their not.” I really wonder if Foley has truly thought about the idea of having games in which the crowd is 80 percent foreign fans and liking it.
Joe
Exactly, A Fan. Excellent analogy. That is the same thing that went through my head as well.
Two things still trouble me about the season ticket process, beyond the illustration you made about having a say in the name. With the caveat that I was going to get season seats regardless, the number of seats sold/deposits made, has always changed with him anytime he speaks about it. I think I literally have had him change the story and the numbers about 6 times throughout the process as to how many seats were sold/deposits collected at different times including the initial days. On top of that it went from there are no more season seats to sell, and a waiting list, capping at 16k and then suddenly it dropped into the 12k/13k range with Foley saying there was 10% attrition, when in reality it would have been 25% attrition. As to the prices themselves, none of the season seat holders was given a specific figure ahead of seat selection as to what a seat in a specific row was going to cost. Yes, they gave ranges ahead of time, but there was never an actual chart that said how much a specific row was going to be. I have subsequently learned through the grapevine that this was done intentionally as they did not want to reveal the prices until the person logged in their portal time hoping that they would make a spur of the moment decision, and pay more than they really wanted because of the hype/excitement. That is shady business practice in my books. Be up front, ahead of time.
The bottom line is, as you said, if you tell the f’n truth and don’t play games as you will be respected even if people disagree with you. Take a stand and stick with it.
Joe
Sorry for all the comments, folks, but before shutting down on this one, I want to say that I find it disturbing that, despite you, Ken, having been the one to beat the drum of support more than anyone in this town (with respect and recognition as well to Blessing and Dana) Foley will not sit down with you and give you an interview for the podcast.
You have publicized everything to the nth degree because you give an F, when the organization doesn’t even see it fit right now to put up billboards, communicate with its season seat holders (other than notices that the next payment is due), heavin forbid send anything to the season seat holders in the way of any merchandise or swag (no I am not bitching personally because I don’t want any of it, just a general bitch because people should get something for shelling out thousands for seats), haven’t visited a single school, no commercials, nothing to create any buzz at all.
My point being that you are the one doing everything you can to create the buzz, and maintain it, and the yet organization, more specifically Foley, just seems to act like they don’t give an F about what you are doing.
I hope that you are getting, and continue to get, everything out of this that you want for all the time and effort that you have put in and will continue to put in because you deserve it.
BTW, I am not trying to hate on the team just to hate. I am not wired that way. I just don’t like the way that they have handled anything from the start and continue to operate. IMHO they continue to screw things up left and right and with the Raiders likely announcing sometime next week that they will be moving to LAS Vegas, there simply is no room for those screw ups. The reality is that they WILL be second fiddle in this town, whether they like it or not, and as of right now they don’t seem to be doing anything to even try to fight that. As they say, you only have one chance to make a first impression and the first impression has been pitifully bad.
Mickey B
@Joe
Exactly my thoughts too. What is this team doing in the community? Hospital visits? Schools? Where is the marketing? What are they doing at all?
I know that there is a lot of previous NHL experience in the hockey ops department, but it is the rest of the team directory that has me a bit uneasy. Very few have worked in the NHL and it just might be that inexperience which is the problem right now. I hate to point fingers, but it has to be said. These hires are on the NHL stage now and there are no excuses for what is happening (as in NOT happening) with this team’s direction right now. Kinda feels like the inexperience bleeds over and is infecting all parts of the team from top to bottom, whether the departments affected deserve it or not.
I’m with Joe. I don’t want to hate this team or be critical just to make noise. I want this to work out and I want the team to stay forever. But, with everything mentioned in the posts above, they aren’t really instilling confidence in their fan base, which is worrisome to say the least.
Ken Boehlke
It’s the number one issue with the organization to this point. See my post under Joe’s for more, but know that you are spot on. 8 months since being given the organization, 2 since getting their identity, and for the most part it’s still crickets.
Have you ever seen Zero Dark Thirty? They find the house Osama Bin Laden was living in and after 100+ days they still hadn’t done anything about it. There’s a series of scenes where Jessica Chastain’s character takes a dry erase marker and writes the of days since they found the house on her bosses office window. Every day she erases it and adds one more number. She keeps adding exclamation points as it goes from 50 to 80 to 100+. That’s me with community involvement. I don’t have a window to write on though, I have SinBin.vegas.
PS – I found the clip. (https://youtu.be/_QN6Ob0NEGE?t=2m35s)
Ken Boehlke
First off, I just want to say thanks for the unbelievably nice comments about respect for myself, Jason, and the site as a whole. It truly means a lot to me and it’s a huge motivator on days when I’m fighting the good fight just to come up with something remotely interesting to discuss on the site.
I’ll start with Foley coming on for an interview. When the site first began we pestered them for an opportunity to get an hour with him. Were consistently told that they would work to find the time when he got back in town. He would then be in town, and I wouldn’t hear anything. It happened a few times before I kind of got the hint. Finally I basically stalked him out (thanks Blessing) and got to meet him. You can read my article, he was everything I hoped he’d be as an owner and I still stand by just about everything in that article. I can honestly tell you I have not asked for an interview for quite a while, though I am planning it again in the near future. I think it will eventually happen. 12 months ago, he may have been ducking me, but it’s more so on me for it not happening recently. (Honestly, the main reason is because I think most people just don’t want any more team name talk) He does respond to every email I send him, and in a very timely manner, to which I cannot explain how grateful I am for. He’ll come on with us, believe me, he will, so don’t go crazy about that.
As for community involvement, it’s the biggest indictment on the organization to this point. Well beyond VideoGate, well beyond the stupid scene, well beyond anything. They should be everywhere in the community trying to get the word out. There should be vans driving around to local businesses selling gear. There should be team sponsored street hockey tourneys. There should be WAY more going on than is. This is where my fear of the Raiders comes in. You shouldn’t need a kick in the pants to do what’s obvious and necessary. I’ve kicked and kicked and kicked again, and that particular message isn’t hitting home. Maybe Mark Davis’ kick to the junk will do it, but at that point it’s probably too late.
Finally, everything everyone has said about one word is accurate, that word is truth. If the truth is told, we’ll always find a way to forgive. I don’t know what the real deal with the scene is, but I can’t keep a straight face when I tell people that is a “real-life interaction” and then have them watch the video. It’s way bigger than the scene though. They tend to want to guard everything like it’s a Fortune 500 investment company. It’s not, it’s a hockey team, and you need a fan base, otherwise it will not succeed no matter how many Connor McDavid’s you have.
The good news is there’s still time for a lot of this to change, but the fact of the matter is it’s been a rocky start on the business side. I’ve met just about everyone in the organization, and I can tell you with certainty that they are to a man (and women) first off great people, but also I believe very smart and capable people as well. It’s got to turn around, there’s too much talent there for it not to. I just think we need to keep applying the pressure and making sure they know the “minor” errors mean something and aren’t going unnoticed. You all know I’m not going anywhere, and I know you aren’t either, and I’m super proud to have created a place for all of us to come and have these discussions. Effin’ A the Internet is cool.
Viva VGK! (Raise your glass and hope amateur hour turns to happy hour soon)
PhiSig150
There’s excitement in the community that Foley isn’t tapping into. For example my daughter is in kindergarten and last week they learned to play hockey in their socks and she actually sat down with me and watched part of a game. I’m wondering if they’re waiting to get players first before getting community outreach into full gear. Seems like wasted time and opportunity. Doesn’t seem like it’d be too hard to get some hockey alumni together and go visit some schools. Or when there’s an event like Disney on Ice they need to have a booth. You have thousands of families going to see an ice show seems like promoting hockey would be a natural fit.
Foley needs to realize that’s there’s a good segment of the fans that don’t read the RJ. Sorry print. I used to love newspapers then came the internet. I only come to Sin Bin for my Knights news. If he wants to reach a different part of the fanbase and one that’s more inclined to be die hard and potentially great consumers he needs to get on your podcast and include Sin Bin in all the functions and events that the RJ or the Sun (is there still a Sun?) are invited to. Since you have his ear at least via email he needs to know all the fanbase is asking is that he be honest and live up the ideals and exhibit the values that the Knights are supposed to represent (Isn’t that why we got stuck with this dumb name? Our hockey team was going to be these valiant protectors of the realm of Clark County or something?) Just be honest with us and you’ll do fine. NFL is coming you’ll need each and every one of us in your corner soon.
Viva Los Knights! (I think Long live the Knights sounds better than Long Live Vegas Golden Knights. Just my opinion. I’m down with the Viva. We need our version of Roll Tide. Go Knights is too generic.)
JMO
I’m waiting for the fall out re enactment when all his employees never agreed with the name and are glad to be free of a name dictator.
Or what about the episode where Foley is seen laughing at the fans opinions of the team name?
Lastly please re enact the entire name reveal because the TRUTH is it was done horribly and people actually laughed, cried, screamed and gasped when it was revealed because of disappointment.
James
I was done talking about the team name (old news), but the Behind the Vegas Ice television show has reopened the wound.
I keep reading that Mr. Foley named the team Vegas instead of Las Vegas because he wants the team to be global. So why aren’t the Raiders shortening their name to Vegas? I’ve said it before, and i’ll say it again. I think it was the most convenient way of getting around adjective Knights. A dilemma created by Foley. I truly believe that Foley wouldn’t shorten the name if he owned the Raiders.
I think tourists will help fill empty seats if the Golden Knights are struggling to sell tickets to locals in six year’s time after the novelty wears off. Just like Madison Square Garden, T-Mobile Arena is located in the middle of a tourist destination.
PhiSig150
I get that there wasn’t a team name they could have gone with that would have been universally loved or embraced by every single local. And I get in the era of the internet and social media fans have venues to voice their opinions and lob their criticisms like no other time in history. Foley was going to have detractors no matter what name he selected. But should’t he have gone with a name that at least some of the fan base loved? Aside from Foley and his employees I’ve haven’t talked to one person or read a single comment that said anything along the lines of “Yeah they nailed it. I love the name. It’s perfect.” I have heard a lot of I don’t care what the name is we have hockey/Las Vegas has a pro team so stop being petty and get over it. I’ve heard the name isn’t great but I love the logos. I’ve heard some people are ok with the Knights but hate the adjective. Plenty of people are pissed (mostly locals, especially native or long time residents) that they dropped the Las (dropping the Las to force in your stupid adjective no one wanted makes it even worse). It seems we all dislike the name just at different levels ranging from apathy to pure hate, and for different reasons.
From one of Foley’s interviews it seems that at one point Adidas was working on Aces as a potential option. Which means despite some gambling associations Bettman was ok with it. Probably means they weren’t too worried about the teams in Alaska or Reno and trademark complications (not that they really care about those anyway, right Albany?) Locals for the most part would have loved it especially if you tied Nellis into it. It would have probably had some people taking shots at the name for it being generic or boring but nowhere near the level of hate that Golden Knights is getting. An Ace of Spades uni would have sold quite well globally too (isn’t that what this all about really? How many jerseys we can sell in China) Another name he floated was Scorpions. That’s a name and a logo that would have killed. I could see people outside of Las Vegas have a reaction similar to when the Sharks came out in the 90s and buy a ton of gear (I didn’t even follow hockey until recently but even I had some San Jose merchandise back in the day). I just don’t see people getting that excited over Golden Knights.
The logos do rock but imagine what they could have done with Aces or Scor(e?)pions. Plus why are the Kings being ignored in all this. I keep saying they’re going to be our rival so why wouldn’t you want to put as much distance as you possibly can between the two franchises. Knights serve Kings!!! Damn it how are more people not more upset with this??!!
I think the bigger issue is just how tone deaf Foley is to his fanbase. He just doesn’t seem to get it. Spin doctoring, outward lying, and even now fake footage keeps making maters worse and prevents the whole issue from going away. We deserve better Foley.
JMO
Excellent reply!
On a side note always thought Las Vegas Stealth worked great too, military, air force, in Vegas, Stealth Bomber etc… But yes he literally picked the least liked and most distant name he could, that is not even a joke or exaggeration.
He left little doubt he is #1, fans are #2 and other groups TM’s, logo’s, color’s and creeds are all for his taking, man has little imagination. If it was never brought up he never truly served in combat you would think his fascination with the Army was due to real combat and brotherhood.
If anything he should name stuff after finance, paper and pens.
PhiSig150
I like Stealth. I guess the concern would be the NHL already has the Jets but then again the NHL already has a medieval themed team and that didn’t exactly stop Foley now did it? It doesn’t get much cooler than the sleek design of the Stealth Bomber. Would have looked great on a jersey. Maybe we could have even gotten a ninja alternate jersey. That would have been awesome. I still love Battle Born. He could have honored all branches of the military including our local Air Force. He could have gone with the same logos or any warrior/military theme. And it honors our state heritage. Las Vegas Battle Born would have been so bad ass. Oh well. Viva Los Knights I guess.
006
Excellent points all. It’s sad that two appropriately fitting names (Aces and Scorpions) were left on the table; but Knights as a name will get better over time once the team is on the ice and an identity is established.
For historical context, the last two NHL expansion teams have worse names than Knights (even Golden Knights). Singular names like Wild are 90’s-era dated while Blue Jackets was derived literally from naming the team after an article of clothing. It’s ironic that both team’s third jerseys blow the primary ones out of the water and have nothing to do with each team’s name; Minnesota’s say ‘Minnesota’ across the chest in gorgeous / timeless script lettering, while Columbus’s feature something that might have had a touch more impact on the battlefield than jackets: a cannon.
Hmmmm…Columbus Cannons. What a terrible name. Just like Las Vegas Aces. ; )
James
Regarding community involvement, selecting Al Montoya in the expansion draft wouldn’t be a bad pickup. Besides being one of the better backup goaltenders in the NHL, the Big Cubano makes a good representive of the hispanic community.
PhiSig150
I think it’ll take a generation or two at least for hockey to really take hold in communities that don’t really have a connection to it. If ever. Wasn’t soccer(football) supposed to become America’s past time since ’94? I think you really need to start on a grass roots level and get kids involved in youth leagues. A Spanish simulcast would also be helpful. And then you need a pioneer. That transcendent Mexican American talent kids can identify with and want to follow in his footsteps. The Fernando Valenzuela of hockey. It’ll happen one day and I wouldn’t be surprised if that person is a Las Vegas local.