Back at The Space to talk about the scene, the Expansion Draft, people we dislike, and many other semi-related stuff. Hosted by Ken Boehlke and Jason Pothier.
- Jason sends the most morbid text ever and Ken almost cries.
- Finally Jason Jr. gets his SinBin inspired birthday gift.
- In game entertainment ideas.
- The Scene.
- The Scott Darling sweepstakes.
- What’s the point of Hall of Fame discussions.
And much more…
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PhiSig150
Way too pessimistic. Writing off the fan base before we have a single player or even a coach. It’s still months before the first puck drops. If the fans suck so much then the NHL and Foley are solely the ones to blame for not promoting the team properly (maybe giving the fans some ownership of the name would have helped. But then again don’t want to sound “entitled”). Are you two completely new to expansion teams?? Of course there’s going to be a honeymoon phase. Most people don’t become die hard right out of the gate. You two really need to dial down your initial expectations of the fanbase because they are beyond ridiculous. Fandom has to be cultivated over time. We live in an society that constantly needs instant gratification so I think we lose sight of the fact loyalty takes years to develop. That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the organization and they haven’t really done anything to build up the fanbase other than constantly fucking up on the name.
The team (and Sin Bin) needs to decide if this team is truly for Locals or the Strip (read tourists) as Jason puts it. Can’t have it both ways really. If it’s not for us than why even bother with the Vegas Wants Hockey ticket drive? Should just have had all the casinos snap up all the tickets to give out as comps. You guys are all over the place on this. So again I ask is the team for the Las Vegas community or is it for people that come to visit. If it’s not for locals and is just some (misguided) attempt to establish a global team then why as a local should I really give a shit. At that point you’ve become just another Vegas show. Cirque du Foley.
And one last thing. LA fans aren’t weak Jason. SOME fans are. Usually the ones that can afford the ultra expensive seats. One of us die hard LA fans should take to the sections of Dodger Stadium and Staples where the hardcore fans are and show you how die hard we really are. Come on now, you’re way better than to resort to east coast elitist snobbery.
Ken Boehlke
I’m so confused at what you want me to answer.
PhiSig150
We were told all along that Las Vegas needed to show that it could support a hockey team with it’s two million residents alone. We needed to show Vegas Wants Hockey not just other teams fans want hockey in Vegas for potential vacation plans. Las Vegas came out and did their part buying up more season tickets than was probably expected. Based off of the local fan reaction and the fact we had an arena in place we got awarded the team. Since that time it’s seems the narrative has switched from locals need to show they can support their team on their own to well it’s not really just about the locals. Can’t be upset at the name because you have to keep in mind this is going to be a global brand. This team is more for people on the Strip and not the surrounding community where most of us live. So which is it? Is the this a team that belongs to the whole Las Vegas metro area and we’re going at this with a homegrown local grassroots approach? Or is this just another attraction on the strip that locals are welcome to enjoy like the blue man group but at the end of the day it’s not really about us? Seems like locals were used to get the team here and then were shoved aside. Now were the ones being criticized and mocked?? Why aren’t as hardcore as a Boston fan when we don’t even have a damn jersey yet? Where’s the promotion? Where’s the community outreach? I know they can do it as evidence by the brilliant Vegas Wants Hockey campaign. Well Vegas got hockey now what? If this team fails fingers will probably be pointed at the locals when they should be pointed in Foley’s and the NHL’s direction. This team just doesn’t have that local community feel. You obviously blame the fans which I feel is ludicrous at this point. I blame management for not doing more (anything?) to build the fan community (outside of season ticket holders) in the first place. There just seems to be this disconnect between the team and it’s local fans which is alarming to me. So Ken is Foley really focused on Las Vegas or has he already turned his sights on the rest of the world before building up local support? Sure seems like he has. Which fans are more important the 2 million that live here or the millions and millions more that visit every year? And if the locals are the most important to him has he dropped the ball in the way the team has been rolled out to us? I think he has has over and over again and I’m not sure how he fixes this moving forward.
Ken Boehlke
I think we are actually on the exact same page, obviously my views didn’t come across as clearly as I thought they would.
The reason there is no fan base is because the team has done absolutely nothing to cultivate it. There’s no community outreach. Every time I think “this is the next step, this is when they’ll start” I’m sad to learn that it isn’t. I’ve done my damnedest to try and create a fan base on my own, but let’s be honest, I can only do so much. Only so many people read, comment, and interact on the reg.
My critism is not of the fans of this site. My critism isn’t really of the people of Vegas. (I guess sort of the UNLV fan base being soft and delusional, but that’s a different topic.)
I honestly was just a little let down by the overall response of the mockumentary. I’m talking about the media, the fans, everyone. There are so many reason why it was that way though. No one can watch the show, not enough people know it exists, not enough people have been reached out and grabbed by the organization and told”this is happening, we are here!”
What they did in that scene was unacceptable. The response to my inquiry was unacceptable. People on SinBin know this, but too many people took the “oh well, I don’t care” attitude and it kills me. That attitude tells them they can do more of this. Tells them that propaganda is going to be acceptable. And in turn, tells them we are just here for the show, and we don’t care about winning. (Slippery slope, maybe?) But that was my concern. If it came across as I hate locals, I don’t. I just don’t like where the fan base is right now, and that’s on the team not on the fans.
PhiSig 150
I guess being from LA I get sick and tired of hearing how crappy a fan I am and get overly sensitive regarding east coast people constantly taking shots at us. LA does indeed have some band wagon fans and also a lot of transplants from other towns that come to the games to support their hometown teams when they come to town (which will be the case in Las Vegas as well) but there are also many die hard rabidly loyal Dodger and Lakers fans you just can’t see the, on tv because we don’t get the good seats. I challenge Jason to wear a Bonds jersey and Giants cap and sit in the Left Field pavilion when San Francisco comes to town and see for himself how soft we are. Dodgers also signed a 25 year 8 Billion (yes billion with a B) tv contract so not only are we regularly in the top 5 or so in attendance but also we watch them on tv. Almost the same exact story with the Lakers. I go on and on about LA because us LA transplants are a huge segment of your potential fanbase and most of us are good and knowledgeable fans even if we don’t lose our shit and cuss out a pitcher in the top of the third for giving up a two run double. It might be wise not to shit all over so many potential fans. Philly fans are so damn loyal and passionate yet the Eagles haven’t ever won a Super Bowl and the Sixers haven’t won a ring since Dr. J. Phillies won one in like what 60 years. Maybe they’re even more accepting of mediocrity than LA fans. Or how about all those suddenly great Cubs fans that accepted the lovable loser bleacher bum labels for a 108 years. Regarding UNLV Tark ain’t walking through that door any time soon. We’re a mid major (if that) and I think Rebel fans have realistic expectations and the fans still go to the games in droves (well maybe not as much this year) despite not being relevant in the National picture since the early 90s. Tark captured lighting in a bottle and you just can’t replicate that in the one and done era. Maybe if we somehow lured a Pittino caliber coach but the regents won’t pony up for one. So again you’re taking unneeded shots. The fans you want are here. We’re from other towns (most of us) we know our sports, we know how to support our teams someone just needs to do a better selling to us. Foley’s job doesn’t stop with the season ticket deposits but does he realize this. So far doesn’t seem like he does.
As far as the scene goes the people that would be outraged just see this more of the norm from Foley. Fan votes, gold mines, locals love Vegas, etc. When we do get vocal about his mistakes we get shouted down for being entitled and ungrateful for bringing a team and hockey here so why bother. Sometimes you guys send a mixed message. Be pissed and vocal but only with the things you’re upset about otherwise shut it and give the creator a chance.
sparky chewbarky
…A good and passionate rant, PhiSig! A few things here…
I think ALL new fanbases, especially fans of a new sport, are naive at first. It’s not just about a knowledge or lack of knowledge of the game, but it takes a while to get a feel on what the character of this new entity is all about. I think for Ken, the “scene” he refers to in this podcast is a red flag more than anything. Is this ownership group going to be upfront and honest with its fans? Will it really “listen” to its fanbase? So far, I couldn’t give a definitive “Yes” answer to either of those questions. So far, it seems, the local fans: the residents of Las Vegas: have been shut out of the development stages. There was no local input into the team name, colours, theme, geographical name, etc. There was the backing off from a promise to have a name-the-team process (no time?..I don’t think so). We were told that we preferred “Vegas” over “Las Vegas”…(I don’t think so). The team name chosen, (Golden Knights) may have been the LEAST popular of ALL the names that were offered up….and the reasons for going with “Golden” (the gold mines, the Nevada sky, the colour of the strip) made even the most naive of us gag. I’d say the job of connecting with the local base needs to be improved, and Ken’s right…you don’t improve that relationship by trying to snow-job us (the scene).
Was the “local factor” compromised by the attempt to create a “global” brand. Read the link that James provided in his response. The elements that make Las Vegas a globally known brand are nowhere to be found in this “Golden Knights” identity.
A little while ago, all these concerns were somewhat overlooked by the sentiment of “Hey, We’re just lucky to be getting a team!”. Well, now there’s gonna be 2 pro teams in town (good for you Las Vegas!!), so the GK’s marketing team better up their game.
Ken’s right, the Las Vegas fans are the customers here. Keep being vocal in what you want. There’s some competition in town now, so maybe they’ll start listening to you.
James
@Ken Boehlke
Not sure if you saw this, but here’s an interesting opinion to consider courtesy of Billy Johnson, Las Vegas Wranglers team president. I can’t help but think that Foley got it all wrong after reading this:
https://billyjohnsondotco.wordpress.com/2016/11/29/from-facebook-vegas-golden-knights-as-a-global-brand/?iframe=true&theme_preview=true
Ken Boehlke
There are a lot of excellent points in there, much of which I agree with, but I have a hard time not reading that with the understanding of a strong negative connotation from a guy who feels suddenly out of the loop to the Vegas hockey community. All in all though, I think it’s pretty darn accurate.
sparky chewbarky
…But in hindsight Ken, Billy Johnson would have been the perfect guy to have “in the loop”.
James
@Ken Boehlke
I know where you’re coming from. I still think Foley would have been wise to listen to Johnson.
I’m not a huge fan of names that are way too long, but I’ve come around on Las Vegas Golden Knights. Sports Illustrated Alex Prewitt and others still refer to us by that name. It’s going to be like the Arizona Coyotes being called the Phoenix Coyotes despite the name change. Call me blonde, but I watched the naming ceremony and thought the name was Las Vegas Golden Knights until I visited the official website. sinbin.vegas even got our name wrong in the initial headline.
Ken Boehlke
I did?
James
@Ken Boehlke
The Las Vegas Golden Knights!
https://sinbin.vegas/las-vegas-___________-knights/
Ken Boehlke
Fail!
That day was insane. That’s not really a good excuse, but it’s the best I’ve got.
And to think, I knew it was going to be Vegas. ARGH.
Ken Boehlke
It’s gone now.
Never happened. I don’t know what you are talking about.
PhiSig 150
Two things have to happen to create a global brand. A team has to win multiple titles and the team needs to have multiple iconic players. Lakers are a great example of this. They’ve won 11 titles since moving to LA and usually have a hall of famer or two or three on their roster (West, Wilt, Elgin then Kareem, Magic, and Worthy, then Shaq and Kobe and later Pau). They also had legendary head coaches in Riley and Jackson and a colorful owner which helped even more establishing the brand. Their jerseys are great but their name is stupid if you really think about it. The logo is only iconic because it hasn’t changed much over the years. We have no mascot. There are no principals and values behind the name. The name Lakers itself doesn’t play globally but superstars and winning does. Same story with the Yankees but with even more winning, players, and time periods. Yankees is a uniquely American term but it doesn’t mater because like the Lakers their brand is winning.
It doesn’t matter if he goes with Las Vegas or Vegas if the team doesn’t get super stars and doesn’t win cups no one outside of 702 will give two shits. You don’t get to that place if you don’t grow local support and make the team sustainable long term. Foley doesn’t get to fast forward directly to becoming a global entity. It’s a long process and one he’s stumbled out of the starting gate on. You capture (Las) Vegas first then set out to conquer the rest of the world. Doesn’t seem like Foley has the patience for this.
pfh64
I follow this team from NY. I follow it because I like the idea having enough knowledge and access to be able to follow the building of a team. I enjoy things enough that I purchased a Sin Bin shirt. Heck, I wish it was LV (and I still think it should be Rat Pack), and Seattle. I would have double fun watching the Rat Pack & Metropolitians, but I digress. The point I was getting at is, from long distance it seems that the fans in LV will show up when you give them something tangible. They dropped the money, they showed up for the awarding of the team, they showed up for the naming. Most folks are not into this wonky stuff, like we are. If this is still going on as they start to put names on the roster, that’s another story.
Can’t wait to hear you guys discuss Jack Capuano next week.