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SinBin.vegas Podcast #237: It’s Over, What Now?

The Golden Knights couldn’t find a way to solve the Montreal Canadiens and now they head into an offseason with a few major questions. We take a look at what went wrong and how to fix it. Hosted by Ken Boehlke and Jason Pothier.

  • Why didn’t the Golden Knights win the Stanley Cup
  • How similar was it to last year’s end?
  • Finding scoring
  • Nuclear option?
  • Our offseason gameplans

And much more…

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24 Comments

  1. DOC (Go Knights Go)

    SILLY SEASON!

    That’s what you could call the next few weeks. The time when all the “maybe” to “crazy” ideas come out on who the Knights should acquire, get rid of etc.

    Well hell, I’ve got a crazy idea: THE BOTTOM 6 FORWARDS!

    Right now the Knights have on the team two players that are in the wrong position. I’m talking about #7 & #27.

    Neither of these guys are really D-Men, are they? In fact they may be the worst D-Men we have.

    So, just move these guys to bottom 6 wingers and be done with it. Then we can get a couple of TUFF D guys that we need. Maybe sounds crazy, yes! But is it really?

  2. Tim

    Who to trade I listened to the podcast and you put out some reasonably scenario’s. I think Riley Smith is intelligent and with 1 year left on his contract he would be a piece teams would want roughly 5 million in cap space. If Foley is adamant about keeping Fleury then that’s easy Lehner has to go 5 million cap hit. I like Martinez but he’ll be 34 in July and to give him 5 million for 2 or 3 years isn’t going to work now that’s 4 million off the books. Now that’s 14 million off the books. Other possible trade candidates in my opinion would be Reeves, Holden 3.5 million. Theadore is an enigma you see potential and at the same time I see a guy who looks like he has the deer in the headlights syndrome. With the moves I mentioned 17.5 million saved to sign Janmark and Nosek who I think both play hard all the time. Ken at one time you mentioned the Knights didn’t resign David Perron because of a neck problem which was a mistake because he’s had 3 good years since he left us at at 4 million the Splash Brothers fucked up. Please don’t tell me there thinking about Jack Eichel who has a neck problem a 10 million cap hit plus draft choices and players to make the deal work. That would be just another bad move which we’ve had our share of.

    • A Fan

      Interesting time of the year, so I’ll throw my thoughts in as well.

      Trade Lehner/Glass to Buffalo for Sam Reinhart. Cap wise it should end up about the same, probably even save a few dollars.

      Jack Eichel: Too expensive, have to give up to much and the unknown with his neck issue.

      Figure out a way to keep Alec Martinez.

      Other players that can be traded: Reaves, Janmark, Nosek, Holden.

      Some talk here about a possible Smith or Marchy trade. Coin toss to me, pros/cons both ways. Smith may be the better choice to keep.

      Fixes: The Power Play of course. Little presence in front of either net. We need more pure grit, we seem to be going in the wrong direction getting knocked around, no one is too worried about us physically. Carrier does it very well and contributes in other ways. Reaves just doesn’t have any offensive benefit, the little he had went in the wrong direction this year.

      Is it just me or was Theodore MIA? Seems like his name was rarely mentioned unless he was turning the puck over.

      It’s late, I’m tired, that’s enough for now.

  3. DOC (Go Knights Go)

    SMITH: Trade him

    MARTINEZ: This guy gutted out the playoffs with a broken bone. He play younger than his age. No question he needs to be resigned.

    FLEURY: Used up. Dump him for whatever we can salvage.

    THEO: He’s a pussy as a D-Man. Get rid of him while he still has value.

    REVO: If you get rid of this guy, you better bring in some tuff guys who can play or teams will run over us.

    NOSEK: Keep

    JANMARK: Don’t care either way.

    HOLDEN: Gives his all, but…….?

    • the hockey God

      i’d keep smith and get rid of the rest of them

      Smith brings an X factor, intangible element to the team, and is one of few muckers/grinder types on the team.

      Nosek I like when healthy, but he gets injured too much. He gone. With the rest of them

      • the hockey God

        23 i would keep, if the price is right, but unfortunately I do not think they can afford his price.

        i’d be disappointed if they move him, but likely HE GONE !

      • Howard

        Agreeon Smith, I’d love him moved down to Tuchs line where that line needs some grinding new presence .Kind of sick of hearing about the misfit line – I’d break them up wnd move Smith down down and Chandler – gives speed and grit with Tuch being a much improved 2 way player – stick Chandler down there as well and there you go.

  4. the hockey God

    VGK lost because
    one
    they were gassed
    and
    two the are a very poor bad ice team. What is bad ice ? How to look for bad ice?
    See my other post.

  5. Bent Hermit

    Smith struggled during the playoffs. He turned the puck over more than any other forward. Smith also had a hard time finding the back of the net. After the 1st year his playoff scoring has been a lot worse than reg season. He had 1 great game and it took the 19th game to finally get it. His reg season this year has not been 1 of his best. With 1 year left and him turning 30 it’s time to trade him. Tuch has developed into the power forward that they had hoped for. He’s #2 in take a ways, #4 in hits and #1 in blocked shots for forwards. His scoring dried up after Pacioretty came back and he was moved to the 3rd line during the playoffs. This is a good sign he should move up. He was better than Smith in just about every area except PK during both the reg season and playoffs at a cheaper price tag. It’s time for him to take the next step and move up to the 2 line. Trading Smith opens up a space for a young guy to step up. He has value so if they need to they can use the picks and prospects they get for him at trade deadline to fill any holes. VGK has a great opportunity this year to develop some young guys. The West is going to be the weakest it’s been for a long time so they can develop some guys without worrying about being the top of the division. With the extra cap they have to sign Martinez he is the backbone of the D and they have no one ready to take his place. The Pens tried to trade for MAF after the end of last season. I would see if they still want him and trade MAF for McCann. There might need to be some cap retained to make it work. McCann is 25 and can play C/LW. He can play on any line plus the PP and PK. He is basically Karlsson with more grit and ability to get to the front of the net. McCann would be a good fit on the 3rd line with Krebs and Duggan. After PDB’s comments it’s obvious they need to trade Glass. There was rumors that they were working on a deal for Nolan Patrick they need to revisit that deal. Both players need a change and Philly would get a exempt player. Nolan is big and fast that can get to the front of the net. The 4th would be a combination of Roy, Kolesar, Carrier and Patrick ( could be on 3rd also).

    • the hockey God

      i would trade Tuch over Smith, get more value. Tuch has been a choke in two out of last three playoff semi’s / finals. I believe he only played well in the bubble. In FINALS Tuch did not elevate puck at a critical junction in the series. . Two years later TUCH still hasn’t learned to elevate puck. He plays fast, but he doesn’t make smart plays when it counts. He shoots when he should slow up, or do a wrap around, He doesn’t make smart decisions on ice when the money is on the line. He was a ghost in Montreal series.

    • Smith is playing on the wrong line – bad combo IMO.. needs to move to the 3rd line.

  6. Howard

    This podcast is utter nonsense. McPhee isn’t on the ice hitting posts, He’s not Patches choking game 6 on his puck, or MAF turning over the puck in an all-time flub – that is simply NOT A DATA point, and anyone involved in analytics knows this.

    Nice talking point, but absurd. VGK simply didn’t make the adjustments in time. They STARTED TO in period 3 game 6 – reversal passes to gain better zone entries, cross ice passing, etc, etc. VGK sustained pressure and got caught on a very unlucky bounce of the puck off of Price.

    Smith whiffs on several at the net chances, Patches again shoots poorly right into Price’s chest – those go the other way, VGK is playing Tampa for the Cup.

    VGK needs a center, a good one to move Chandler and Karlsson down a line each. Move Roy to line 4, put Krebs there, Chandler on line 3 and you get your ‘depth scoring.’
    This can be done by trading one goalie and trading Theodore, who is absolutely a redundancy with Petro in hand.

    End of story – I know you guys need shit to talk about, but it’s hot air nonsense.

    • the hockey God

      spot on howard, how many times did VGK players hit Price square on his crest ?

      too many

      Their play throughout the series was poor and inconsistent, they could not maintain sustained energy. Most of which was due to being gassed (HABS were more rested team throughout the year and playoffs) and the bad ice. Their muckers were better than VDK Muckers.

  7. Bent Hermit

    Tuch just turned 25 and is signed for long term at less than Smith. He is actually still improving. Tuch has scored more goals than Smith every year except the 2nd (they tied that year) in the playoffs. All of Tuch’s goals, but this year, came playing with really bad linemates. Smith turned the puck over 18 times, Tuch 4 times during the playoffs. Smith’s puck management was by far the worst of any forward. How much better would the 2nd line have been if they weren’t having to cover for Smith’s mistakes. Like I said compare the 2 this year Tuch has been better in almost every area but PK playing with a lot less talented players at a cheaper price.

    • Howard

      Trading Tuch is plain stupid idiotic talk. Ya, trade a guy with a very high ceiling? I would not trade Smith either. If any forward, it would be Marshy – can’t take playoff hockey hitting, too small, not enough skill to overcome that. Smith can grind and play physical – WHAT YOU NEED TO WIN A CUP.

      As I said, Theodore is ABSOLUTELY the right guy to trade because he’s a redundant LUXURY WANT, not a NEED. MAF is right guy to trade although I like him better than Lehner, it’s a matter of biz. No team will take Lehner and give even decent return, else Lehner ALREADY WOULD have had a long term deal with a team.

      Pens want MAF bad, had something worked out, but there were some cap issues that Pens didn’t want to address – they’ll address them now.

      Just add a net busting physical center to take pressure off Stone and Patches so they can engage hits less, By adding a true topline center, it allows you to move Karlsson and Chandler downline – DEPTH SCORING.

      • Bent Hermit

        Theo had a bad playoffs this year. He’s young and still tweaking his game. A good D man takes a little longer to reach max potential. Past performance shows that he should bounce back. Having 2 D pairs that are a threat can cause problems for teams. Trading Smith allows the team to move a older player and replace him with a better, younger and cheaper player. It also opens space on the 3rd line for a rookie. There’s really no 1 in the system to replace Marchy, Tuch just isn’t as good on the left, so that leaves Smith. Trading for a top C is going to cost a lot and there’s no guarantee they will have better chemistry than Stepheson, especially at 2.7 mill. Most SC teams have a good mix of old and young players trading Smith helps with that. I could see trading Holden or McNabb on defense because they have guys ready to step in to those spots.

        • Howard

          I hope you guys don’t run a business. YOU HAVE TO GIVE TO GET. is that a hard concept for some of you?

          No teams are going to give you return on Smith – a topline center – NO CHANCE of that. They will however give you return on an offensive DMAN in which we have A REDUNDANCY of = 2 . ONLY NEED 1. Many teams will in fact be willing to give up a good center for Theodore AND NO ONE ELSE ON THIS TEAM.. What’s hard to understand?

        • Howard

          Marchy as you call him isn’t a playoff type forward – u won’t win a cup with him, he’s a shrimp who gets beat up out there, and he ain’t no Braydon Point. He’s the guy u trade, not Smith who has 1 year left. Smith can scrum in front of the net decently, Marchy never gets to the front. Marchy is pretty much Point with half the talent.

          Caps beat the living shit out of our topline back in 2018. I mean physically killed them.

          It’s time to get the right type of players to actually really contend for the cup, because this team as is, is not a real cup contender.

    • Howard

      Because Smith is a grinder more then he’s skilled shooter – absolutely belongs on 3rd line. Downline about combos and matchups more than anything else.

  8. DOC (Go Knights Go)

    The hot air king, calling “hot air nonsense”, is just too funny! ha ha

    • Howard

      That’s Mr. King to you Gramps!

      • DOC (Go Knights Go)

        Thank you for the shout out, air head!

        Yesterday (28th) was my 71st birthday and I have 4 grandkids that proudly call me Gramps!

  9. Tim

    The trick is how do we get better and younger at the same time? Stephenson was a nice pickup 26 years old with speed. He’s a third line center not a first or second line but still for what we paid a good job by management. They have to beat the bushes for more younger players with speed. Howards on the right track if you watched Tampa tonight you need all for lines with speed and able to score. This is what I thought we’d do to Montreal boys against men but I was wrong we don’t have enough speed. We can all speculate what needs to be done but if management will do what they do and I hope it’s not Krebs as bait. Suzuki sure would look good in a Knights sweater but we got Patch 32 versus 21 years old. Not sure thats how you build a dynasty. Thats all history as is Haula and Perron.

    • Howard

      Not so much speed Tim on downlines as it is about players who can grind-score. However, if we want a top notch C1, we will have to part with Theodore, only play on our team that others will highly value = give to get. If we can pull that off, keep Karlsson on line 2, consider trading Marchy as well for another center, potentially a 3rd/4th liner and a draft pick.

      I like Marchy, don’t get me wrong, but he’s just not the type of forward on this team construction to win a cup. The series with Caps in 2018 should tell people that, he got killed out there and will continue to get beat up on a team like this. He’d fit better with a 2nd or 3rd line on another team with bigger players next to him.

      So, if we can move Chandler down to 3rd line with Tuch = scoring speed line + one bigger forward who plays physical with ok speed, that will allow Roy to go where he belongs – on 4th line to mix and match with Krebs and other youngsters.

      I’d love to move Patches, but we would not be able to get any return on him with his contract, length left. and age so we are stuck with him.

      Stone needs to play more angry, he sulks too much when stuff don’t go his way.

      Vegas lacks that physical fire that Cup Winners all have.

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