Marc-Andre Fleury for Mikael Hakkarainen. The reigning Vezina winner for a player that isn’t even going to play for VGK’s AHL team. The face of the franchise for literally nothing.
That’s how the deal will be reported, and it’s completely accurate. However, many will frame it in a different way, one that is also accurate.
The Golden Knights acquired $7 million in cap space. They are now able to re-sign Alec Martinez, consider bringing back Mattias Janmark and Tomas Nosek, and maybe even add a bigger piece like Phillip Danault or dare I say… Jack Eichel.
It’s absolutely true that heading into this offseason Vegas was in dire need of opening up some cap space. It was also clear that the simplest way to do it was to move one of the goalies, a luxury that proved not to be so luxurious come playoff time when one or the other was parked on the bench each night. They’ve done it. Moved out a goalie and in turn, opened up heaps of space to make the next move to help improve the team.
But, aren’t they just fixing a mess they created in the first place.
If your son swung a baseball bat in the house and shattered the chandelier you wouldn’t applaud him for cleaning up the broken glass on the floor. (No, this oddly specific example is not in any way related to my childhood, nor am I reminded of it every time I sit at the dining room table at my parents’ place.)
The Golden Knights put themselves into this situation. They created an environment that made the best goalie in the NHL worth absolutely nothing, and this isn’t the first time they’ve done it. They gave away Nate Schmidt for pennies on the dollar, literally a 3rd round pick. Paul Stastny went for a 4th. This means the combination of VGK’s #1 goalie, #1 defenseman, and #1 center in the 2019 season were all sent packing for a return of a 3rd and a 4th round pick.
Yes, the Golden Knights have replaced these players with other, maybe even better, players. But it’s the cost to get there that is the concern. The combination of Robin Lehner, Alex Pietrangelo, and Alec Martinez to replace these three was $17.8 (soon to be $18.8) million, three 2nd round picks, a 4th round prospect, and Malcolm Subban.
So, Vegas subtracted less than $1 million dollars, replaced three players with similar to slightly better players, and paid three 2nd round picks to do it.
In professional sports everything is currency. From draft picks to depth players to superstars to cap space, harvesting the most out of every asset is crucial to ultimately become the best team in the league. The Golden Knights haven’t been doing that in the past few offseasons. They’ve selling below the market floor and then replacing the pieces by buying at standard market rate.
It’s a downward spiral that inevitably leads to robbing Peter to pay Paul. The moves keep stacking up and while the team looks different, the overall result remains the same, because they’re only minorly improved, yet they paid a massive price to do it.
The Golden Knights have consistently backed themselves into a salary cap corner and the only way to get out is to sell valuable pieces at bargain-bin prices. The same way the Golden Knights robbed the Senators of Mark Stone, they’re now being pillaged and plundered by the rest of the league because they are enamored with always being in on the next big fish.
Yes, of course, the Golden Knights opened up valuable cap space by trading off Marc-Andre Fleury, but they were only in that position because they had already paid draft assets, an NHL player, and cap space to buy his replacement. So, when they went to trade the future Hall of Famer, the return wasn’t there because of the leverage VGK failed to hold.
Over the next few days, the Golden Knights will spend that cap space and use even more assets to rebuild their team for yet another run at the Stanley Cup. And while they certainly have as good a chance as anyone to get it this year, those chances will keep dwindling and dwindling as long as they continue playing the offseason games we’ve grown accustomed to these last few years.
Richard Santomauro
Don’t you dare say Jack Eichel!
George L.
I’m so tired of hearing that dude’s name. It’s exhausting.
George L.
Fluery had an off year, his father had passed and he had an injury or two.
The front office started to panic. They fired Gallant, fired the goalie coach and hired Lehner. AND they started Lehner in the playoffs.
Tried to dump Fluery in the off season.
Then the worst thing happened for the front office’s evil plan. Fluery came back better than ever. Then Lehner got hurt. Fluery came on stronger. Then Fluery won the Jennings and Vezina.
Lehner barely played enough to get on the Jennings.
Lehner is Deboer’s man. Fluery isn’t. Deboer is the coach the M&M knuckleheads like.
Fluery is gone. So is my burgeoning love for this team.
Rowdy
If they wouldnt have picked up lehrner Fleury could have stayed. they should have kept Dansk. If he does go, i will not watch another game.
Kaitlin G.
Totally agree! All of these moves have been “save face” to try to make them look like the Lehner acquisition was a good one. It was a terrible deal at a terrible price. The way the front office handled this trade is what really drive me to donate all of my VGK gear to the Goodwill. A complete lack of class, respect, and integrity on the front office’s part. I don’t think the fan base will be all that forgiving of this one.
Erick Begun
Your absolutely correct.
Erick Begun
I agree with you 100%.
A dumb move.
They don’t want the team to win.
The salary between Fleury and PHYSCO Lehner was only 2 million. Should have gotten rid of Lehner and dumbass coach.
They will never win anything with DeBoer (BORING COACH). He couldn’t do anything with San Jose, so why did they think he will do anything with Vegas.
You can have all number 1 players, but if you have a CRAPPY(LEHNER THE PHYSCO) goalie you will suck. Ask the New York Rangers who had all top notch players and finished dead last in the league. Can’t remember what year.
I will sell all my Vegas items I have.
Anyone want to buy a Fleury authentic jersey size 60, email me at erickbegun@gmail.com. I don’t want anything to do with Vegas Golden (not so golden anymore) Knights.
I see a losing team starting next season.
You GO FLEURY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Richard Santomauro
One of the best articles you’ve put out, and I totally agree! All of these moves are contributing to a downward spiral. I think it can be said today, at least by me, that the Lehner acquisition was not a good one. VGK would have been just fine with Fleury and Thompson in 2021-2022.
Sure, Petro played well the past few games in the playoffs and he does put in a lot of TOI. But was this acquisition a success? Not in 2020-2021!
Acquiring Jack Eichel is going to cost VGK the “farm”. To put it simply, VGK’s cap makes it almost impossible for them to bring in a 1C for next season. They obviously, or should obviously, be shopping Smith due to his contract situation. If they are smart they will look to improve the 3rd and 4th lines and hope to get a one-for-one quality winger for the 2nd line. There are at least 3 centers that need to be tried out from the HSK. Trading Krebs or Logan Thompson would only further accelerate the future decline of this team.
If VGK is smart, Logan will be backing up the Turtle this year. If so, Logan will be the starter by January 2022.
Pistol Pete
I think Smith can go to enable picking up a big 1C. VGK has never had that kind of offensive hammer. It’s been a missing piece since day one.
Pistol Pete
They should be able to bolster the 3rd and 4th with prospects like Krebs, Dugan, Elvenes and others.
Roy can go too IMO. He just can’t really score. Not really.
Pistol Pete
I will say it again. When Fleury blew the 3 goal lead about halfway into period 3 of game 7 vs. SJ ending season 2, the writing was on the wall. He was aging and in the twilight of his career. The team knew they had to trade him and acquire a younger starter. Problem was, nobody wanted to pick up Fleury’s $7m/yr. so the move to acquire Lehner backfired. I forgive the FO that error because they were right about MAF. He is past his prime. Showed it again in game 3 vs. MTL with that atrocious gaffe. Time to move on with a $5m/yr. starter. I think I had been thinking trade Lehner but this is better because of the $2m additional cap.
Daryl
Completely disagree with you!!!! Yes MAF is on the backend of his career but he is still better than Lehner. And more importantly, he would have been a better mentor and coach to Thompson. Taking on Lehner was a huge mistake no question about it. VGK FO panicked after the SJS game and everyone knows it. To say the team knew they had to get rid of MAF after that game is pure BS!!! And to prove that statement is BS MAF came out this season and proved it. How many games did MAF save this season with spectacular saves? You’d have to take off your shoes to count them.
Then you bring up a huge mistake in game 3 as another example…. Well VGK over came that mistake and won the next game. Let’s not forget the turnover by Petra earlier on in the playoffs that cost VGK a game. That mistake isn’t talked about because VGK came back and won the series. If VGK ended up beating MTL nobody would be talking about Fkeury’s gaffe either.
VGK FO put them in this mess to begin with. Yes a goalie had to go and as I stated over a month ago, it would have to be MAF. The way it went down was a total joke. The Lehner trade is still hurting VGK even after MAF is gone. I feel bad for Thompson
Sherry
A lot being said about goalies. Haven’t heard anyone mention the lack of goal scoring during the playoffs – which at some point can cause either goalie to make a mistake out of frustration. I mean seriously, no matter how good any goalie is – you can’t win if you don’t score. It’s a complete team effort to win. I do t think we had that. And don’t get me going on the mortifying lack of PP skill. Shame on the FO for keeping the PP coach. What a failure that was.
Daryl
You won’t hear much about the lack of scoring because it doesn’t fit the agenda of those on the site who don’t like MAF. I made a comment about how many PP goals VGK scored. The replies skipped right over that so they could trash Fleury
Charles born
Ravi. You are so right.
Julie
Exactly right. For all the times Fleury carried the team, Lehner, Subban, made all those incredible saves, took all the idiocy of PDB – who, btw, couldn’t/wouldn’t fix the PP or help anyone score more than average, and showed his ass more times than any mistake by Fleury or other team members because he is an ass – the convenient focus is on Fleury’s mistakes. The “business” many refer to is the process of weeding out and bringing in who they want. That part is understood. It’s the way they do business that warrants analysis.
If I belong to a club, or work at a company, for example, and I find out they exclude people or lay off people to cover their mistakes, I look for another group that does business aligned with my values. Vegas mgmt has proven they don’t care at all about any player and that’s why they won’t win the SC. You get more production out of employees/players with respect than with fear.
THE hockey GOD
spot on Pistol Pete, ignore the local blinded fledgling fan base deniers, the rest of NHL hockey world sees it the same way.
Daryl
I guess we should get rid of Petra for his turnover leading to a goal which cost VGK a game in the playoffs. We also need to get rid of everyone on the PP as they were nonexistent. Let’s add the first line to that list as well since they couldn’t score in the playoffs. Let’s not forget our HC and PP Coach who have done a horrible job of making any sort of adjustments
But NO, you guys want to put ALL the blame on MAF!!!
Erick Begun
Your wrong, I’ve seen the best Goalies make mistakes like that. That is what they call a fluke.
By the, who got them that far in the playoffs? Fleury.
Mark Stone and other Vegas players said they wouldn’t have gotten that far without Fleury. That should’ve been a clue to the IDIOTS in the front office.
The other players (other than goalies) didn’t play very well. So why get rid of an exceptional player who gets you to the play-offs. Should get rid of players who didn’t perform if you want to free up cap space.
DUMB MOVE.
Fan base will drop, mark my words.
Erick Begun
Yea, Fleury may be old, but still better than any other NHL Goalie, 1.98 GAA, 6 shutouts, A hell of a lot better than PSYCHO Lehner who posted a 2.38 GAA in only 19 games , half of Fleury’s games. Imagine what will happen next season.
Daryl
Not only were they half of Fleury’s games, they were against teams with a losing record. Lehner beat just one team all season with a winning record
DC
Vegas is a place known for BIG gambles. It seems this holds true for the VGK franchise as well. Sad to see Fleury go.
SuperVegas
Damn, absolutely nailed it.
Dean
I think what will hurt this team even more than losing Fleury is the unclassy way they booted him out the door. Although they have a history of doing it, they have never done it before to a player with performance or class of MAF. This will reverberate and cause.problems in the future with players wanting to come here. I guarantee it.
Miri
Totally agree. And to pour salt on the wound, recall that Foley was reported to have told Fleury that he would be retiring as a Golden Knight. Now it appears that what was really meant was that when the Knights eventually traded MAF, it would be to a team whose situation would make MAF seriously consider retiring as an alternative to continuing to play. What a shame. What a lack of class on the part of the Knights (once again).
sb
That’s contrary to all interviews of the new players coming in by trade. ALL expressed that they were THRILLED to be with the VGK. Martinez and Janmark stated their first choice was to be resigned and stay in Vegas. After signing Pietrangelo last summer, with Schmidt and Stastny on the way out, Pacioretty said in an interview that EVERY player in the NHL wants to play in Vegas. And there wasn’t hardly a day that MAF didn’t say something about wanting to stay in Vegas. You guys keep making up baseless rumors that players don’t want to come to Vegas. That’s totally, absolutely false. Don’t take my word. Take the word of every player on the roster and those new players coming in. I have never heard one NHL player say anything bad about VGK or not wanting to play here. Pac said EVERY player in the NHL wants to come to Vegas. Pietrangelo left St Louis where he’d been for 10 years, was Captain and won a Stanley Cup. His intention was to ONLY sign with VGK. These claims you guys make are baloney.
Daryl
Talk about making things up…. Petra came to VGK because they were the only morons to offer that ridiculous contract. He would have gone to any ream that have him that offer. As for every player wants to come to VGK, we’ll that was made by one player who is already on the team. I haven’t heard a sibgke player outside of someone already on the team even come close to making that claim. On the other hand, there have been a couple players who have made opposite Comments about VGK. Why is it your believe one side and not the other???
DOC (Go Knights Go)
Ya know Ken:
IF they hadn’t traded away a goalie then you would have been all over them for not trying to “loosen” up the cap space.
On twitter and here you keep saying they got nothing for Fleury. Of course NOT TRUE! They got exactly what they needed the most. His 7 mil+ cap hit off the books!
They are not done yet and this team will be much stronger overall going into the new season!
Ken Boehlke
Do you read the stories or just scroll to the bottom and comment?
Sunshine and Rainbows
DOC is right though. You are the biggest VGK Debbie downer I’ve ever heard. You have been up on your soap box for more than a year about wasting $12 mil in goalies. How dumb it is, the league agrees….it never ends on how negative you and Jason are. Two completely different stories coming from McCrimmon and Weekes so I get that part. Have all players been handled fairly over the years, no but in the end this is a business. All you have talked about is holding managements feet to the fire on “cup in six”. Now they are making big moves and you still rip on them. Hearing something positive from you two would be great at some point. I can’t tell you how many times I try to get through a podcast, video or story and have to stop. I can’t remember the last time I walked away from your point of view feeling good about VGK. What percentage of what you do is positive for VGK compared to negative…90-10…? I honestly question if you really like the team or you just feel that you get more views by always going the negative route. As if there isn’t enough negative things going on in the world right now, I can’t even follow my favorite team without constantly hearing your negative spin.
Daryl
What big moves have VGK made? VGK needs help on offense and especially on the PP. They went out and got an aging Winger with zero PP points and a backup goalie. Signing a backup means Thompson isn’t ready or management has no faith in him which is interesting. Most of us knew VGK had to get rid of a goalie, even though posters like Doc and others have said VGK needed both goalies. And really the only goalie VGK could get rid of was MAF. Most of us get that part of it. The way it was handled is a joke. And then what VGK did with that money was a joke
sb
Ahhhhh, no. While VGK didn’t go the route I wanted, a hi-end Number 1 center and then move Stephenson to Tuch/Roy, what they have accomplished WILL make next years team considerably better, a much deeper scoring team. Retaining Janmark and Roy, then adding Dadanov, Howden and Patrick, while shipping Reaves out gives the team much more scoring on the third and fourth lines. FINALLY after three years, Tuch gets NHL level players on the wing and center. Now Tuch won’t have to carry the third line all by himself. Dadanov, Janmark, Tuch will be a deep, scoring third line that will dominate most teams. Roy with Howden and Patrick will provide 4th line scoring that has been totally absent the past two season. These additions make this team much deeper on all four lines. But, yes, this is not an answer to the PP. In an interview a couple weeks ago, Foley said they would address the poor PP. I think there’s one more trading coming involving a current Top 6 and 2 prospects. VGK aren’t done. One more trade coming.
Daryl
SB,
Lines 3 and 4 will be better, which isn’t very hard to do. The moves don’t help lines 1 and 2 and does nothing for the PP. This team has not improved iverall
Daryl
More inside knowledge I guess?
Pierre S Martin
It starts at the top, the “creator” is hell bent on winning. And they are taking a 2nd mortgage on the teams future. In three years this team will be struggling.
Dean
Don’t think it will take 3 years.
THE hockey GOD
“hell bent on winning”
which team isn’t ?
sb
Oh, what an awful Owner! He wants to win. Shame on him for wanting to win games and bring the Stanley Cup to Las Vegas. Shame on Mr. Foley ……. the best owner in the NHL.
Daryl
What exactly makes him the best owner in the business? What has he done that is so much better than any other owner?
Blake
If they sign jack, I am done with this team. M&M have run this team into the ground and done so in a totally unprofessional manner. This team has traded it’s misfit jersey in for next years trendy overpriced moldy cheese that expires before may. I don’t fault Foley he is a good owner it’s solely on M&M and their staff choices. It’s time for them to face the consequences of their actions.
sb
Run this team in the ground??????????????????? They only missed winning the President’s Trophy by a technicality. Run this team in the ground? VGK are the second most successful team in the NHL over their short four seasons. You call that running the team into the ground? This is NUTS!
Jen Nash
I may be done with watching this team. The front office did not pay attention to how beloved Fleury has been to this team since it began? He had an amazing season this last year & he was not the reason they lost to Montreal. I am disgusted if he did find out on social media & it saddens me that his family has put so much in to our city that this is the way they let him go. Great article. Wish MAF the very best!
Jen N
I may be done with watching this team. The front office did not pay attention to how beloved Fleury has been to this team since it began? He had an amazing season this last year & he was not the reason they lost to Montreal. I am disgusted if he did find out on social media & it saddens me that his family has put so much in to our city that this is the way they let him go. Great article. Wish MAF the very best!
THE hockey GOD
if fans love marc andre billy buckner in nets, then that says a lot about
the knowledge, or lack thereof, of the fledgling fan base. The team got into the dance several times (Finals caps, semi’s san jose, semi’s Canadians). Losses every time. Embarrassing loss in last series that NHL fans, true fans, recognize for the magnitude of blunder that it really was.
His time is up, time to move on. He had his moments, but to date his legacy is that he did not get the job done.
Move on. The 7 million is wisely spent elsewhere, hopefully they will make the right decisions.
Daryl
You really are clueless!!! I guess dementia really set in seeing how you forgot how VGK didn’t score on the PP. VGK lost, not because of MAF and his one mistake, but because they couldn’t score on offense or on the PP. It funny, and sad, that you dislike MAF so much that you would blame him for everything instead of where the blame really should lie. I could have sworn that VGK came back and won the next game after the MAF blunder!!! Maybe I’m wrong?
Pistol Pete
The consequences of their actions thus far is the playoffs every year including two semi-finals and one final. I would say M&M have done OK.
Dean
Don’t think it will take 3 years.
Dean
They haven’t traded away a future HOF goalie to hand over the net to someone no other team wants. This team will still have a good regular season (as their division is atrocious). However, a Cup will never happen with a backup goalie (Lehner) in net
JB
Lehner has better career sv% and worse in gaa by .1 . And he played for some bad teams (Chicago, buffalo), while.fleury has played for perennial contenders. He was a vezina candidate a few years ago.
Calling him a backup goalie just makes it seem like you’ve never watched hockey before. Teams around the league would absolutely love lehner, especially with 4 years at 5mil. You’re nuts.
George L.
Yet reportedly nobody made offers for him. He comes with baggage. It’s funny how everyone screams “it’s a business” until you mention Lehner, then everyone hammers you for being insensitive. Is it still a business?
Daryl
If teams around the NHL would have loved to of had Lehner, then why didn’t any of them take him when they had the chance??? MAF played on good offensive teams but as a Pens fan, I can tell you their defense was not their strong suit. And keep in mind, Lehner won just 1 game last season against a winning team.
hdbiker7851
JB – In all do respect your head is up your ass as the only reason Lehner -the out of shape walrus – is here – no other team he played for or with wanted to keep him. If he was as you think than a back-up goalie maybe you should consider your lack of hockey knowledge. If he was that great other teams would have held on to him with dear life – not the case – they apparently where happy to say good-bye. FO couldn’t get a team to take him of their hands so kept Lehner to cover their mistake they made with the 5 yr , 5 mill a yr contract. You certainly don’t have to be a brain surgeon to see the hand writing on the wall as to that’s what is going on
Neal
Interesting. “The out of shape walrus”. 13-4-2 – 2.29 gaa – .913 sv%. Seems like a pretty good season for an out of shape walrus.
Daryl
@Neal
Considering he only had 1 win against a team with a winning record, its a easy to have good numbers when most of your games are against bottom feeders
sb
Stat-wise, Lehner is in the Top Five for Goaltenders over the past 5 years. Even with that said, I have no problem with the Knights winning games 5 to 4, 4 to 3. No problem there. Grant Fuhr and the Oilers won 4 Cups like that. And I think there’s a new wrinkle coming in here. This guy, Laurent Brossoit, I think he is a future Star in the League. He’s played on some weak defensive teams yet put up very good SA% in his short career. On a much strong defensive team like Vegas, I think this guy will truly compete and push Lehner. This guy just might be the future goaltender of the VGK. MGT got a real gem in this guy and nobody is noticing him yet.
Daryl
They play in the Pacific…. Buffalo could almost make the playoffs in this Division. The team has literally declined every season thanks to the decisions this FO had made
Tim
Tomorrow we’ll have a chance to witness the next misstep. They love overpaying for players and draft picks mean zero when there on the hunt. Do you think Janmark was worth 2 second round picks? Was Tatar worth a first, second, and third round pick? Was Lehner worth 2 second round picks? I always love the Patch trade Suzuki, Tatar, and a second round pick thats not over paying. Then Misfits like Perron and Haula we let walk. Then theres always the guys who cam up through the system Whitecloud good D no offense, Hague mediocre at best, Kolazar couldn’t score in an open net, and then how can we leave out Cody Glass who left Vegas in his rear view mirror. Krebs, Dugan, and Elvenes they’ll probably be traded tomorrow for a box of rocks. I used to have faith in management but that ship has sailed.
Gregory Casterline
Ken I have known you and Jason for the last three years, you guys always write great stories. That being said i agree with you but i also see it from a business point of view. Having worked at the fortress the last 2 of three seasons and having made a friend with Brad Hunt, it is business at the end of the day. I cried as did many other employees at the fortress when Brad got traded. I’m 37 years old 4 months older than MAF, if he has played hockey since he was a kid having been bent over 30 years or so wears your knees down. I think Flower should give a big middle finger to all and retire. It’s still an option for him. Then he could stay in Vegas forever. Maybe even become a coach if he wanted to (better than Patrick Roy I think). The cards are still on his side for now. I am slo a Packers fan so i have seen this shady stuff the last few seasons as well, it sucks but at the end of the day its a business and nothing more.
Mark
I love GB too and the Knights and I’m originally a Californian. It’s been a tough couple of months.
A Fan
It’s well known they tried to trade him last year to Pittsburgh, but the money situation couldn’t be worked out. If you listened to Foley (and boy did Ken fall for this one) you’d think that Foley just didn’t allow that trade…total BS. If he could have been traded, he would have been, proved by what was done today even after having a Vezina Trophy season.
I would bet that when they started shopping goalies this year, they couldn’t even get a nibble on Lehner, so Fleury it is, one of them should and had to go. Lehner is a good back up, not an elite starter like Fleury. And to those people (with ice cubes for brains) that say Fleury is past his prime, too old…he won the Vezina this year and had one of his best years ever…at 36 yrs old. He has plenty left and I hope he goes to Chicago and once again proves it to these people who continue to doubt him. He’s too polite, but I’d sure show them my ‘we’re #1 finger’ if it were me.
If they did in fact have a way to trade Lehner and his $5M, they should have. They could have unloaded someone else (say Holden) also with a smaller cap hit and got the same cap result. Fleury had just one more year at $7M and he had already publicly stated he would take a team deal after that.
As others have already said, if they win the Cup this year then most of today will be forgotten. (most, not all) But if there isn’t a parade on the Strip in 2022, Batman & Robin should be out the door. And to those who say but we’ve been to the final four 3/4 years, yes that’s great, but every year since reaching the finals in the first year, this team has been built/designed to win it all or nothing.
Much of what Ken said in this piece was spot on. Do I always agree with him, no. But in this crazy PC world we now live in, he’s a perfect example of why so many just zip their lip because they’re scared (cowards) to speak any truths or opinions that might piss someone off. Do you notice that he is rarely if ever called on by the Knights media people for questions? I get that he may have gone a little overboard with all the Reaves talk, but it’s just his opinion. Are the Knights that weak they can’t handle someone who doesn’t just kiss their butt always? I have to admit, I’m a BIG Knights fan, but the way Fleury and others have been treated on their way out (yeah, yeah, I know it’s a business) I as others have, lost alot of respect for our owner and upper management. And yes I’m a huge Fleury fan, but my thoughts on why today was a mistake has little to do with that. I just don’t see Lehner taking us to the Cup. I would love to be proven wrong, but I doubt it. Maybe tomorrow they will somehow shock me on UFA day, but I doubt it.
THE hockey GODv
too bad you fall for media hype, this is all on MAF’s agent. Do the math, connect the dots.
IF Lehner was on trade market, it would have been “leaked”. I don’t recall a single leak saying the VGK was trying to deal Lehner.
However, we all know that GMKM told Fleury he was likely going to be moved RIGHT AFTER THE PLAYOFFS ended. So Fleury had a heads up. Was that a classless act ?
Plus there were trade rumors Fleury was going to Chicago within the last two weeks. Fleury knew, don’t believe he didn’t. His agent knew it too. His carefully worded tweet outs the agent as the pot stirrer.
A Fan
Elliot Friedman has said that Lehner was shopped with no luck. That left one choice to trade…Fleury. Do the math, connect the dots.
Jake
Management tired of MAF’s agent and subversive moves with MAF.
Decided Cup won’t be won with MAF in goal.
Need cap space for more center/scoring talent.
Much of MAF’s success is caused by good team defense by the forwards and defenders and PDB’s style of play.
It is business, MAF is near the end of a great career.
I like the move, as difficult as it was.
THE hockey GOD
spot on Jake
Daryl
So much for why they moved MAF… They signed an aging Winger with zero PP points and a backup Center. Where’s this offe sive help you say VGK needed?
And PDB system had absolutely nothing to do with Fleury’s success. Defensive Forwards do help, but they help every goalie. I like how you try to take away from how good a goalie MAF really is
DOC (Go Knights Go)
For those of you saying you are done with the Knights now!
Good riddance! Take your BS elsewhere!
And Ken, yea I read the “stories”. You ride the fence and decide which opinion will drive the most clicks.
Ever since Fleury and his agent did the stab in back thing, I have been waiting for his departure!
The team will be much more cohesive now that he is gone. Looking forward to the additional moves in the next few days!!!!!!
THE hockey GOD
wow i don’t believe it, Doc and me , on same page.
Worlds are colliding !
Daryl
Why are you still here Doc? You’ve been saying for months how you and your old dominions have a better place to be.
We all know if this was a Jason article you would be in love with it
THE hockey GOD
Fleury and his agent have had plenty of chances in Vegas. But the bottom line is he didn’t get the job done when it counted. Finals series with Caps – lost, Semi’s with San Jose – lost (imploded, that is on goalie and GG), semi’s poor play and two gaffes. In summary, he had multiple chances. Time to move on.
And anyone with a brain knows it was a trade for seven million dollar salary cap. The trade was a money dump, and the NHL trade market set the price. That is as much to blame as it is for the lame NHL SALARY CAP rules in first place.
Fleury’s agent is classless act. He likely leaked it because he tweeted it ! And his back stabbing cartoon ?! Classless, he’s clearly a POS. He has got his paws all over this. I hope the VGK don’t have to deal with this piece of work in future.
Fan
You seem like a nice enough moron, so I’ll let you have your dumb opinions and not argue with you. But anyone who shares an opinion with Doc isn’t smart enough to really understand a cohesive argument.
By chance….. do you happen to know who Patches’ agent is?
A Fan
lol spot on Fan, spot on. lol
Daryl
VGK management is classless… Look at how they have treated several players in the past. Lehner laid an egg last season with some very soft goals which cost VGK advancement yet he is still here. What about Stone and the rest of the PP unit, they’ve been a joke for 2 seasons now and yet they are all still around. You love to blame MAF and then turn around and make excuses for every other player. Makes you look like a joke
Neal
Did you really say Lehner let in soft goals that cost VGK advancement? Please explain that one in detail.
Daryl
Yeah I did… He was out of position a couple of times and when he goes down he is very slow to get up. He also let in a few easy goals. If people on here want to blame MAF for losing the series for his one major mistake then I’m going to blame Lehner for all the goals he let in that he shouldn’t have the previous season. It’s really that simple!!!
Melvin Hallerman
Much as I love Flower and hate to see him go, consider the following:
1. Can’t keep seating 2-3 players short in a full 82-game season.
2. If they traded Lehner and kept Fleury then, in one year, it is very possible they would have NO number one goalie.
My hope is Fleury retires, stays with VGK as Goalie coach and PR person (and collects big $$ doing local advertising – Findlay Toyota, etc).
THE hockey GOD
welcome to jungle Melvin, a well thought out concise post. Thanks for not making a mockery of the forum posts !
ThG
Dean
There was no chance of trading Lehner unless we ate salary or threw in draft picks. He’s a vastly overpaid backup that is our mistake for the next 4 seasons. Trading for him and signing him to the deal he got is the biggest mistake in this franchises history and will probably continue to be that 100 years from now.
THE hockey GOD
They gave away Nate Schmidt for pennies on the dollar, literally a 3rd round pick. His production/ play dropped off the charts dramatically. So >>>I guess they got his market value because >>>
Schmidt just got traded to jets for a third round pick.
Vancouver Canucks trade Nate Schmidt to Winnipeg Jets for 2022 third-round draft pick.
Martinez just signed with Vegas for a little over five million a year.
So basically the FANS now get Martinez for Fleury.
Are they happy with that ??
They would be whining if they let no 23 go. Easy to sit back and make monday morning QB comments without understanding how the Salary Cap BS works.
(and maybe a back up goalie, Reimer is rumored on the radar). And that should be about it. Unless they can somehow get that Montreal Center signed. Then more HEADS WILL BE ROLLING
Daryl
Wrong again!!! VGK got Martinez for Holden. For MAF they got an aging Winger who didn’t have a PP point and a backup goaltender that will almost have to become the starting goalie after Lehner sits out for personal reasons again.
THE hockey GOD
I like how Ken avoided the obvious MAF agent’s shit show trying to pin Vegas ownership/management as classless, rude, crude or whatever the gullible people want to heap on their dung pile of misinformation.
It’s pretty clear that this was a feeble attempt at smear campaign coordinated by MAF’s agent Walsh. His disdain for VEGAS and pattern of behavior is clearly evident by his past actions. He’s a major suspect and CSI Vegas would agree if this were a listed as a crime scene.
Fan base should be crucifying this piece of work.
WE WON’T GET FOOLED AGAIN!
I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again
play it (my bad, I think CSI Vegas theme intro is Who are you ?)
The real hockey God
lol this may have been the dumbest string of comments I have ever read. Are you okay?
Could you maybe look into who Patches’ agent is for me real quick? I don’t think you’ll like what you see.
I hope you get the help you so desperately need. Truly.
knights fan in minny
thg do you live in a van down by the river
Tim
If you read Fleury’s tweet yesterday I think it says it all. He thanked his teammates, fans, and the city of Las Vegas in so many words. He did not mention Foley, management team or coaches so I would think in a nice way he blew them off. Make of it what you want but I would think he’s not ver happy.
THE hockey GOD
foley / management/ team are part of city of las vegas
Daryl
No, they are part of VGK hockey….. they are not part of the City. Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit.
BTW, doesn’t Patches have the same Agent???
RJ
My brain understands, but my heart doesn’t
DOC (Go Knights Go)
I realize just how much I WILL be missed in, under 5 weeks, now. My thoughts are mentioned by so many ….. cool.
Nothing has changed from what I said weeks ago, actually only have grown much larger. To do something right, it takes time to set it up, work out kinks, get actually what we want.
Most plans are ready now, but just buttoning up loose ends. Soft launch planned for holiday weekend. Can’t wait. Until then, the laughs this place provides give me daily therapy. ha ha
knights fan in minny
doc did you eat paint chips as a kid just wondering
knights fan in minny
doc do you stand in front of the mirror when you pat yourself on the back maybe you had to many whacks in the mellon from a cheap koho
knights fan in minny
the krak building a nice team
DOC (Go Knights Go)
See ….. it continues.
Constant recognition of my thoughts and ideas.
LOVE IT!
knights fan in minny
wake up doc its called making fun of you you should be sharp i know you share the same nap time as joe blunder 2 in the afternoon nap time
Rick
While I continue to disagree with the statement that they “GOT LITERALLY NOTHING FOR FLEURY!!!!” Your larger point is dead on correct. I think the Fleury/Lehner piece of it is not a great example because they got a pretty good deal on a near elite goalie in Lehner and goalie is sort of a special case where it takes years to develop one in house. But they’re not developing anything in their farm system and that’s going to bite them hard at some point. And I suppose they never should have given 7M AAV to Fleury.
It’s very difficult to argue with your overall point.
Daryl
Near elite goalie???? I almost spit out my whiskey, which would have made me very upset!!!
Rick
Hey I’m an Avs fans and he’s the only player on your team I’d want. The fact that you guys are so freaking blinded by your love for Fleury that you have no conception of what’s been handed to you in Lehner is even funnier.
You got a guy who’s finished in the Top 6 of the Vezina voting four times including a third place and won two Jennings trophies handed to you for Malcolm freaking Subban and signed him for what – 5×5 or something like that. You guys are so used to things being handed to you that you have no clue when you got something really valuable. Don’t worry, the Mc’s will likely ship him out for some shiny object du jour.
Daryl
You can have him… More than likely he won’t last an entire season. Do you know how many wins he had last year against winning teams? Didn’t he give up at least 6 goals to your Avs? Lehner’s contract at $5m is not that great of a deal for VGK, especially considering how much he played last season and how much he will be playing for the seasons to come
DOC (Go Knights Go)
Can’t make fun of someone who doesn’t give a rats ass about you! (It’s the internet, so who gives a f*ck)! ha ha
Ya’ll just so jealous that I will be moving on from this.
knights fan in minny
you and blunder joe have a lot in common lights on but no ones home you wont be missed
knights fan in minny
jealous are you high were going to have a party when you leave
Daryl
Jealous? Not even close…. More like over-joyed. Wish we had a countdown time. It’s almost like all those who said they would leave the country if Trump were elected… I’m still waiting for them to go
DOC (Go Knights Go)
IF you guys don’t care, then why are you even wasting your time on me?
Don’t have to leave country because THE COUNTRY kicked his despicable ass out!!!!!!!
It’s obvious you are so afraid you’ll have to eat “your own” when I’m gone!
But I admit, I will miss the daily laughs we get from you idiots! ha ha ha
Daryl
You sound just like Pauline….. What country exactly kicked anyone out??? I think your meds are getting the best of you again. Not sure how anyone is afraid of eating anything. Your statement makes absolutely no sense. Lay off your meds and try again
DOC (Go Knights Go)
The meds thing is old and means nothing anymore.
Anyway, as much as I like the banter, with an idiot, I just don’t have the energy right now.
And besides, it’s just the fucking internet, with plenty of brave internet punks, so what’s the point, little man! WHO CARES!!!!!!!
knights fan in minny
and your one of them internet punks just go away doc you high crier
Daryl
The meds thing might be getting old and mean nothing… just like YOU!!!! And by no means am I trying to be an internet badass… YOU are the one who likes to call others names. And as feeble as your sorry ass is, my 13y/o wouldn’t have any trouble taking care of you!
So go back to your senile old ways… we are counting down they days until your dumbass is gone!!! Too bad you can’t take the fat Walrus with you!
John Brown
IF they had done what I suggested two weeks ago we would be just as “good” as we are NOW with all the trades and acquisitions in the 72-48 hours, instead of the two GM’s freaking out looking for the next “shiny object”
We would be leading the Pacific division half way through the season with at least $2,350,000 in cap space to buy the $4,700, 000 “CENTER shiny object” at MID SEASON at HALF of his yearly AAV.
Then after the season/playoffs, Fleury’s $7,000,000 goes away.
Then you have the “CENTER shiny object’s” $2,350,000 UFA cap space, Fluery’s $7,000,000 cap space AND Smith’s UFA cap space of $5,000,000 (IF he wasn’t traded mid season) for a grand total of $14,350,000 in cap space.
SO, IF the ‘shiny object CENTER panned out, depending on age, looking at around $5,500,000-$6,000,000 AAV for three years for “CENTER shiny object” C1 or C2.
With remaining $8,350,000-$8,850,000, you have options.
MAF for $3,000,000 for TWO years and $5,000,000 for “needs”. After this upcoming season, the only UFA that will cost is Janmark if he can get back to his 25-35 points he had his first (3) with Dallas. $3,000,000 AAV for (3) years and you got a good 200’ player 3C center with Tuch and Dadanov.
Don’t retain Fleury, $3,000,000 for a back up for (3) when Thompson will be ready for the NHL.
My degree is in Economics/Industrial Psychology. The VGK COMPLETE management team needs watch Moneyball at least three times.
Statistics/Analytics do not lie. It is 90% of of how to analyse a player. The other 10% is chemistry, character and competitiveness.
Below was my “plan” two weeks ago. THEY (VGK) unfortunately “jumped the shark.”
OK, Lehner is going NOWHERE. Has NTC. He gives Knights 10 teams with NO cap space/NO need for goalies. Trade dead in the water.
Fleury is going NOWHERE. Everybody in the organization knows the OWNER told him he would retire as a VGK. Foley’s word is FINAL. Fleury stays put.
Look at his record year by year. He is at his prime. I guarantee “Walrus” aka Lehner does not put in the time and intensity on training Fleury does off season.
Lehner is a huge body in front of the net who can stop pucks when he has a clear shot. Screen him and he does not have the athleticism/speed to rapidly look around both sides of the screen to assess WHERE the play is originating from. On his back, it’s like watching a turtle trying to right himself. His ability to find the puck rolling around in the crease is suspect due his huge mass and lack of agility. We are stuck with him.
We can win the Pacific division with what we have with “minor” changes. It is halfway through the season when you go for a “whale” if needed. More on that later.
Team resigns Fleury for 2022 and 2023 for team discount of $3,000,000 AAV and his last year is the year Patchy turns UFA right after 2023 season. Sayonara Patchy. $7,000,000 cap space becomes available.
Trade Reaves, McNabb for 2021/2022/2023 3rd, 4th or 5th round picks
That is $4,250,000 in cap space. Add the already $6,100,00 cap space according to Cap Friendly.
$10,350,000 cap space to work with
$3,000,000 AAV to Martinez for 2021,2022 and 2023. Term vs 2 @ $4,000,000 plus puts
him in year with Patchy leaving. Family lives in L.A. Loves VGK/tax relief.
$2,500,000 AAV to Janmark 2021/2022/2003 and that ALSO puts him to year Patchy’s
$7,000,000 disappears
$1,500,000 AAV to Nosek 2021/2022/2022 and that ALSO puts him to year Patchy’s
$7,000,000 disappears
$1,000,000 AAV to Brown for 2021/2022
$8,000,000 in “new” contracts with $2,350,000 left. That will be used “later”
Your (4) forward lines and (3) defensive lines with (4) year “historic” yearly average GOALS/POINTS added together from each player in EACH line are:
Patchy, Stephy,Stone (50/130)
Marchy, Karly,Smith (68/159)
Tuch, Krebs, Roy (25/58)
Carrier, Nosek, Janmark (24/58)
Petro, Marty (19/55)
Theodore, Holden (14/50)
Hague, Whitecloud (4/20)
These are “projected” GOALS/POINTS for 2021/2022 if the #1 & /#2 forward and defense lines remember they are NHL players and NOT AHL players.
IF the coaches can get these (18) guys to play to their “historic season averages”, these numbers above give you:
204 GOALS and 734 POINTS for 2.37 goals per game.
IF you use this season’s players from the lines about, the 2021 team gave us:
175 GOALS and 511 POINTS for 2.03 goals per game.
Obviously some UNDERACHIEVED and some overachieved.
Players fighting for a spot are Kolesar, Glass, Dugan, Quinney, Brown and O’Regan for a forward spot and Coghlan and Schuldt for a defensive spot.
There is at least ONE to TWO “average” to “good” player in each group to be a “healthy” scratch that can play 3rd/4th offensive line or 3rd line defense if a starter is hurt without breaking the bank.
The “projected” lines and “this seasons” lines above wins you the very weak Pacific Division going away.
Remember that $2,350,000 of cap space remaining of cap space.
If you wait until mid season as the VGK have done in the past, then you have an opportunity to get a $4,700,000 AAV offensive or defensive player that you did NOT need for the first half of the season at HALF his AAV. IF he pans out , trade Smith for a 2nd, a 3rd and 4th round pick and retain NO salary and use the $5,000,000 Smith departure Cap space to sign the new guy for 3-4 years at $5,000,000 AAV at end of season.
Two ways to go here. The choice above OR
At midseason you trade Smith for at best scenario, a 2nd pick, prospect and retain $2,500,000 against the cap. Use the remaining $2,500,000 of “freed” cap space to sign a “need” at $4,850,000 ($2,350,000 remaining cap space as mentioned (3) lines above and the $2,500,000 cap space freed with the Smith trade).
At end of season if the “need” pans out, sign 2-3 years for $5,000,000 AAV knowing that Smith is gone and your $2,500,000 retained salary is gone.
Only MAJOR change is a “possible” mid season change.
Reaves, McNabb and Smith need to go. They are past their USE BY DATE. MY loyalties are to the team, NOT the player. Not one is untouchable. Ask Wayne Greasy. I am 72, I remember. I think like a GM, not a fan. Make the team better, NOT me happier.
Last, but not least,
FIRE THE EFFING SPECIAL TEAMS COACH.
Make the special teams guys (2 groups of five) come in every practice an hour EARLY and watch the power plays of the (5) best power play teams from this season until they have gone through EVERY one from this last season. The good ones don’t use the “umbrella” power play set up letting the other teams (4) man defense set up a “box” to stop shots from 180 degrees
See that wasn’t hard. Same or better team that just needs some motivational “tweaks”
Would you rather eat a Rib eye steak that you used a sharp carving knife to cut away only the necessary fat or a round steak that you use beat constantly with a steel mallet until you ended up with Swiss steak.