(Photo Credit: SinBin.vegas Photographer Brandon Andreasen)
Last night the Golden Knights were officially eliminated from the Stanley Cup playoffs. Vegas failed in shootout for the third straight game, ending what was supposed to be a highly successful season. Over the past week, the team was desperate for points, and Logan Thompson, on no rest, gave them the best chance to succeed. It wasn’t ideal. Late season back-to-backs, four straight extended games, and endless pressure was one of the reasons the organization pleaded with Robin Lehner to play out the final few games.
He was unhappy with some of the criticism he was getting and being pulled. There were talks about how can we make this work, can you at least play through the season. Then he saw the doctors, he’s legitimately injured. They announced one surgery but I think there are two or three different injuries. –Elliotte Friedman, The Jeff Marek Show
Surely, had Lehner been available coach Pete DeBoer would have considered starting him against the Blackhawks. Or at the very least use him to support Thompson. Unfortunately, that’s not the case and the team was left with one option while Lehner prepares for season-ending surgery.
Lehner’s playing with two, possibly three really tough injuries. I just don’t know if it’s one thing or more than one thing. He’s left the team at times, he’s been injured at times. He’s tried to play through it, he’s competitive. It’s definitely effected his ability to be at his best. He’s not at his best but he’s competing. –Friedman, 32 Thoughts Podcast
Friedman reported the team had asked Lehner to finish out the season and fight through his injuries. I’m sure that’s a common conversation players have with coaches this time of year. In this case, Vegas’ goaltender was battling too many ailments to suit up. Playing through injuries and being publicly criticized must have annoyed and frustrated Lehner. Which shouldn’t surprise DeBoer or the front office.
I think Lehner, rightly or wrongly feels he gutted it out as best as he could and he felt he was treated unfairly. People keep telling me there’s a lot going on here and it’s best to let the particulars speak about when they feel they’re ready. There’s going to be conversations about this. –Friedman, The Jeff Marek Show
Even as the pressure built and their season flashed by them, the Golden Knights managed to stir up more drama. It began with injuries, cap juggling, fumbled trades, and ends with another unhappy goaltender under DeBoer.
Their season was too noisy. There was too much drama. –Friedman, The Jeff Marek Show
When reporting the latest on Tuesday afternoon, Friedman was uncommonly cryptic. He admitted he was warned by a source close to the situation. In other words, the truth will reveal itself in time.
There’s one person that I really trust who’s really plugged into this situation. He said to me ‘be careful, because this one, there’s a lot going on under the surface. Be very, very careful this is going to be a tricky story. A very tricky story.’ –Friedman, The Jeff Marek Show
In one sense the team’s desire to use an injured Lehner as backup made sense. It’s Thompson’s net but the coaches wanted a seasoned starter-type backup not an AHL call-up. On the other hand, it’s easy to understand Lehner’s concerns. DeBoer had publicly critiqued all three goaltenders this season but rarely called out position players. Mark Stone has been a non-factor since his return and Vegas’ coach laid off his captain.
Teams will tell you, you don’t want noise. This whole season has been noisy for Vegas. I just want to hear what everyone has to say because it’s been a hard year there. There’s been a lot of controversy on and off the ice and we have to see where it lands. How is this all going to get solved? I do think they will say that injuries will be a major factor. You get injuries and you get stuck on the cap. Look at how many teams manipulate the cap. There’s a lot of them. Well, this one blew up in Vegas’ face. –Friedman, The Jeff Marek Show
It’s possible that this will all blow over but that’s unlikely. After a disappointing finish, fingers will be pointing all over the organization.
At least we know they can’t blame it on hot goaltending this year.
Richie-Rich
I will say this just once. Robin Lehner was never suited to be a 1A goalie for Vegas. He would have been an outstanding backup goaltender to MAF, but KM fumbled this and gave the Panda starting goalie monies, 5 years, 5 million. Lehner is a great 2A backup goalie, period. You cannot depend on him for the lion’s share of work in an 82 game season and that is now a proven fact.
Major mistake that isn’t easily corrected.
original 6
if Lehner was worth being a starter chicago would of get his ass the year crawford was retiring but they new and had no problem dumping him. Hope the knights just pull the trigger on De Boring. $ Mc Cringe go with Quenneville & Dale Tallon. and let Tallon fix this mess. and cap
DanK
You think Quenneville will ever coach in the NHL again?
Dale
They should have never let Gallant go. DeBoer has no idea how to react to changes on the ice. That is why the Sharks got rid of him.
The Rob Show
100% agree about Galant and also Mark Andre Fleury. We definitely be gearing up for the playoffs right now. There’s no doubt about it. I’m not saying we would have won another dozen games with all the injuries, but we would definitely be in the playoffs
Seth Bayles
Someone finally called out Stone! He’s been a shell of his former self for two years. What’s wrong with him??
Cody
Yet a year ago most Vegas fans loved him and were like “they had to trade Fleury bc Fleury is old and the cap and Panda is better”
Richie-Rich
I was not in the camp. Lehner would have made a great backup goalie to supplement Fleury but The Clown didn’t like #29. They overpaid Lehner and gave him too long a contract.
Julie
Lol – I remember when Gallant called DeBoer a clown. So true.
Babe Moore
EXACTLY! VGK should’ve kept and , while rotating Thompson in. They could’ve made other changes to the lineup. That would’ve given Fleury his last VGK-year, while getting
Lehner (hopefully) ready to be the #1, and Thompson ready for the #2 slot. The FO bungle cost them the loyalty of the fans, and a better season.
Ulf
Exactly. Many many fans were also saying stuff like “why didn’t Fleury stop that goal”, just like they’re saying about Lehner, when they don’t mention the same conditions under which the goal was scored – the opposing team blowing by VGK defenders yet again. And by defenders I mean the whole defensive system.
RL is a fine goalie behind a team playing the right way come playoff time. That hasn’t been VGK consistently for years.
Some fans need to educate themselves.
VGK fan
Ulf,
Most fans appreciate MAF winning the Minnesota and Colorado series and the intelligent fans remember the 0-16 power play and the Gaffe by Petro that ended the season.
ulf
good points, although I’d argue the Petro move was a chain of events that ran throughout the team’s play.
VGK fan
Cody,
A year ago MAF won tge Vezina most fans didn’t agree with the trade you have it backwards.
Vic
Sounds like lawyers will be busy in the next few months.
Richie-Rich
I find this entire topic to be defining in terms of front office and coaching incompetence. Robin Lehner was already underperforming prior to any injuries this year. It was a mistake to think he could be the guy in net for this franchise over an 82 game season, and it should have been even more obvious when they were thinking about playing him with a torn labrum and fractured patella.
Yet, these idiots thought that it would be better to have an injured Robin Lehner in net or on the bench the past few months instead of going out and looking for a rental. Logan Thompson has played well, but again he’s a rookie and at times looked like one.
One has to wonder who the doctors are that are paid to evaluate players ability to be in the lineup. What were they telling the front office? Just hit him up with cortisone or worse and send him out there injured?
Just plain stupid. The front office could care less about its players. That much is obvious.
Califsmiles
Amen
Babe Moore
VGK should’ve kept MAF and RL, while rotating Thompson in and guiding him. They could’ve made other changes to the lineup. That would’ve given Fleury his last VGK-year, while getting Thompson ready for the #2 slot. The FO bungle cost them the loyalty of the fans, and a better season. The fact that DeBoer openly criticizes the Goalie but NEVER calls out the others is such bullshit. If you rely only on the one between the pipes for the win, your absolve the rest of the team from doing their jobs. They aren’t passing with focus or taking the shot. Stone is overrated. The writing was on the wall the minute DeBoer started.
Contact Tracer
Still mathematically possible for Vancouver to finish ahead of VGK this season.
I bet the Canucks will be playing their asses off to do just that. Wonder if the vgk will throw the cards in or fight?
Richie-Rich
At this point, it doesn’t matter where the VGK finishes in the standings. All of the teams not in the top 16 are going golfing.
The VGK was pretty much healthy the past few weeks (or were they?) and they still were outplayed by some of the worst teams in hockey.
I think we might be seeing the beginning of the end of Mark Stone’s career. A bad back is tough to come back from, even with surgery.
Contact Tracer
Obviously …. it’s about saving what face you have left. But maybe all these country clubbers could give a rats ass.
Richie-Rich
I find it interesting to blame the players. I have a different theory. I think the players have lost confidence in the coach and the front office. There’s definitely a gap there, especially a communication and trust gap.
The drama is so thick on this team it’s no wonder it is coming out in the Wins and Losses column.
Again, Mr. Foley – needs to see it. He needs to inform IT to remove the key passes from the system for McCrimmon, DeBoer and his entire coaching staff. He also needs to take a look at the team physician organization because I think that putting Stone and Lehner back on the ice was obviously another knee jerk move. Both these players are nowhere near 100% and should have been on LTIR possibly for the entire season.
VGK fan
CT,
They won 3 of there last 10 hard to believe they will show up at all for this.
Julie
The injuries make it harder to trade him, I would think. At least on his own with that salary.
If he has a legitimate grievance, I hope he goes through the proper channels.
You are right, RR.
hdbiker7851
Julie – not sure where Al Edwards came from but just wanted to wish you a great summer – on to next year – HDBiker7851
hdbiker7851
Julie – the Al Edward’s post disappeared – have a great summer.- it talked about creditability, integrity, etc – so probably got deleted. Time to cheer on the Oilers now Vegas is history for this year. Talk about the entertainment capital of the world – drama, drama, drama – unfortunately not good – sad day in Hooterville the grinch sold Christmas. LOL Take care
Julie
HD, enjoy your summer as well! As for Vegas, sometimes you have to hit rock-bottom to make the changes needed. Should be interesting to see how this all pans out with Foley and what he does. The Oilers did great last night but so did Minnesota. And we all know how much it’s killing the Fleury haters right now, ha ha. All the analysis of why he needed to go, the drawing of Fleury crying a couple seasons ago, “needing the cap space” just to blow it on an overrated shiny toy or two, etc. Even if Fleury tanks now, he still made it to the playoffs, just like Vegas did every year he played for them. I don’t feel bad at all pointing out the abject failure of the righteous posters here who tried so hard to tear him down and convince us Lehner was the savior. That back-fired big time.
Enjoy the playoffs – any thoughts on who will take the SC?
VGK fan
Julie,
Great post, your comments represents the majority of VGK fans! I wish Fluery nothing but success as he enters his 16 consecutive postseason!
Richie-Rich
And let me just say this, the comments made about Robin by Coach DeBoering were shameful and a complete disgrace to the organization, especially with the comments about him focusing on the players who are here on the ice to battle. What a slap in the face.
Fire this Clown Now.
Gallant was right, DeBoer is a CLOWN.
THE hockey GOD
“The comments made about Robin by Coach” what comments were those ?
Be specific. Date , time , verified source
Kings Fan
In the post game interview after the loss to New Jersey DeBoer said something along the lines of. “We needed our goalie to be better than the opposing goalie tonight and we didn’t get that.”
THE hockey GOD
@ kings fan,
SinBin.vegas
@SinBinVegas
·
Apr 18
“This time of year you are looking for your guy to be better than the guy at the other end, and tonight that wasn’t the case.” -DeBoer on goalies”
stating fact, anyone who watched the game could see that coach is not lying. How is that throwing anyone under bus. He could have said. Then he also said ” SinBin.vegas
@SinBinVegas
·
Apr 18
“I’m not sure either goal they scored on is a good chance.” -DeBoer.
THE hockey GOD
or maybe this one ????
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SinBin.vegas
@SinBinVegas
·
Apr 20
DeBoer said the reason to start Lehner in the first place was because “we pay him to win these games.” He added that he’s healthy and fresh and he thought after the NJD game that he wanted to give Robin another chance.
SinBin.vegas
@SinBinVegas
“The decision to start him, we pay him to start games like this. It’s the most important time of the year. He’s healthy he’s fresh he’s got a lot of energy. We need him at this point of the year. After that NJ game I felt like I wanted to give him the opportunity to bounce back.”
yep, PBD really “threw him under the bus”.
Dumbest fan base in all of sports on full display.
Daryl
You aren’t allowed to use facts on here when replying to thg…. Only his facts matter
Babe Moore
He also said something to the effect that LEHNER was pulled because the players on ice didn’t have confidence in him. Again, this was in an on-air post game interview. The game where LEHNER was pulled after the first. Google it!
VGK fan
RR,
I remember the comments he made lack of class he was doing nothing more than trying to shame Lehner.
Neal
It’s funny you say that because everyone complains when Deboer is cryptic in his responses, then when he isn’t he gets burned for that too. There’s just no pleasing some of you undereducated fans.
Daryl
It’s different to criticize the team as a whole than it is to call out one player. Why hasn’t PDB called out his BFF Spott on how pathetic his PP unit is???
Frank
Unfortunately, Lehner is nothing but drama. Whatever you think of his professional credentials and play – the man is drama. I don’t seem to recall such drama when we had another person tending the nets (usually the goalie drama was surrounding finding a competent back up). It is a distraction, and has been this entire season. The front office and coaching staff are culpable too – with the way they have mismanaged the cap, dealt with player injuries, lack of motivation/accountability etc. This team needs a culture change – starting in a couple of days once the season is over. That starts at the top and works it’s way down until there is no drama left. Then they can get back to focusing on hockey. There is still and will still be a lot of talent on this team.
THE hockey GOD
“Unfortunately, Lehner is nothing but drama.”
Frank I thought it was the coach’s fault ??? Not Wiggy Biscuit’s fault.
The other posters here calling out coach, can’t have it both ways.
Which is it ?
Coach is not involved in cap, FO is. But OWNER is most involved !
Frank
THG – if you notice in my post I did say FO and coaching are culpable as well. No one escapes blame in my book. But Lehner does have more than his own fair share of drama to add (again, never have been a fan so perhaps I am a bit biased here. When healthy, he is a good goalie – but not great. In hindsight, an ill advised signing which again can be blamed on ownership and FO) We’ll have to see what is done to fix this mess during the off-season. Should be very interesting…………
THE hockey GOD
Yes Frank , your opinion on FO was not about RL though. You stated
FO was responsible in your mind for a bunch of things “with the way they have mismanaged the cap, dealt with player injuries, lack of motivation/accountability etc.”, but unrelated to RL “drama” who I believe was not involved with cap/other player injuries (other than his own)/lack of motivation. Two separate issues there 1) RL drama 2) organizational “stuff”.
And BTW when MAF was here there was a lot of drama. Did you miss his back stabbing cartoon and , among other things, he’s whining about not playing when RL was getting all playing time in bubble, and his public comments when he found out he was being traded. Driving down his trade value. Which is not a good thing for franchise, it’s fans, or anyone who had any last ounce of respect for him ? And I am not mentioning his well known gaffes on the ice.
Howard
THG > GMP
Richie-Rich
You can sum up KM’s strategy for the Golden Knights as follows”
See shiny thingy buy shiny thingy, over pay for it and give it a stupid ass long contract.
Herby
Not sure if it KM‘s strategy or Foley‘s. It is very common for successful business people to think that they can simply buy a successful team.
This team has way too many 5 Mio +, star, players and not enough hard workers, entry level contracts and prospects.
Not looking good for the future at all….
THE hockey GOD
@Herby prima donna goalies , aka MAF. and perhaps wiggy biscuit when all facts come out .
Blitz
I remember watching Love Line on MTV as a teenager and I alway remember Dr Drew talking about people who are always involved in chaos, need that chaos in their lives and seek it out. Lehner needs that drama in his life. He has had it throughout his career. It was the warning we were all given when he came here as well. It is definitely not just bad luck. I can’t speak to his current situation as I have zero inside info. Maybe he is totally being wronged, but one thing is for sure…here we go again. If Friedman’s words are at all accurate then it sounds like more drama is on the way. My guess will be RL suing or someone’s head rolling over something about RL. It’s plain that the Knights need to cut bait, if nothing more than to have an untainted clean slate.
THE hockey GOD
@blitz, we shall see wiggy biscuit would certainly have mouthed off sooner. Or would he ? He seems the type of player to hold it all in, then unleash after the fact.
It appears that he didn’t really go to a doctor until late in the game. AFTER he went to the DOCTOR(s) and had something substantial was only when they called it.. REmember he not only missed three practices in a row (which would be a red light in many organizations), but he missed many practices earlier on in the season.
So the question is who knew what when, and does it really matter ?
I think it just more pot stirring by idiots in the media, who like do this. And note these “stories’ always come from the same two people JASON and Freidman.
What happened to that “ESPN writer” who said FRIDAY= season ending surgery ??
Cody
Lehner has done nothing at the NHL level. He has no credentials. His credentials are he’s a loser on good teams, and a complainer on bad ones, and he torches teams as soon as he leaves. Six teams in six years is it for him? He’s the Evander Kane of goalies.
Gary
Funny that you make the Kane comparison. As I’ve been reading these opinions/comments about Lehner I was drawing the same comparison.
Roberto
Feel bad for Lehner. He’s not Fleury, but none are. Dude gutted it out through a ton of injuries, only to be stabbed not in the back a la a Walsh Cartoon, but right in the heart, while being thrown under the bus. He’s a legit top 15 goalie. At his salary, and if he’s healthy and backed up by a pretty solid Thompson, that’ll work. It has to.
This assures that a new coach will be behind the bench next season. This is the easiest solution, not only for the team to feel better about coming to work, but to help the front office keep being able to coming to work at CityNational.
Too many injuries for this team to get cohesive enough for any kind of run, even if they’d made the playoffs. So bowing out now is fine. Get a coach that maximizes the roster, who can develop cheap rookies. In the meanwhile, get all of the players in a hot tub for at least two straight months.
THE hockey GOD
“while being thrown under the bus” who threw him under the bus ? When did this happened ? Time place and source.
Are you talking about being pulled , only one time ever he was pulled after first period? Is that your definition of “throwing under the bus”?
Who decided not to come to practice for three days ? Was that the coach’s call or wiggy biscuit’s call ?
Be specific.
Richie-Rich
Specifically “The Team” asked for Lehner to gut it out for the rest of the season knowing full well he had a torn labrum and fractured patella. That specific enough for you? Then, when Lehner balked, The Clown DeBoer threw Lehner under the bus like he does to all of his goal tenders and players by making a comment that he’s focused on the players that are here today to do battle.
Fuck him.
Cut him.
THE hockey GOD
RR
““The Team” asked for Lehner to gut it out”
reference , source ?
IT is team, FO or coach, owner, or both or none ?
What is wrong with “gutting it out”? Is that a problem? Most players in NHL “gut it out”. This isn’t the national pansy football league. You know ? So what is your point, up to this point. (there is none as far as I can see).
Then you say
“knowing full well he had a torn labrum and fractured patella”
where is your reference for this ?
Did a doctor provide this information ? If so, then the doctor would have shut him down. The fact is , RL didn’t go to a doctor until LATE IN THE GAME. Read the article, it says it right there. RL did not go to any doctor it appears.
Then your wrote “The Clown DeBoer threw Lehner under the bus like he does to all of his goal tenders and players by making a comment that he’s focused on the players that are here today to do battle.” I don’t recall him saying that specifically, but it really doesn’t matter. He did say he spoke to RL and RL told him RL was not hurt and could play. That is a written quote. So if that is case,. how is that even throwing anyone under the bus? IT appears to be a medal of honor for those who can play ?
Boy your logic or reasoning is wrapped. You are drinking the FO hate kool aid and it’s coming out of your ear lobes and spilling on the floor.
It will be interesting to hear what wiggy biscuit has to really say, he is a whiner and not very friendly to organizations. Based upon his previous history He will have to decide if he really likes it here or IF HE WANTS TO BURN BRIDGES AND THROW THE ORGANIZATION under the bus.
I think you got it backwards in regard to who is going to throw who under the bus. RL has the history in this regard, not other way around.
Roberto
Exactly.
There were games when DeBoer was on record with comments calling out Lehner specifically for his play. This, without him saying a word about other guys under-performing in the same games. The list of guys who didn’t delver down the stretch is a lengthy one. There were options if DeBoer wanted to make examples of guys. He chose Lehner alone.
Knowing a guy requires several surgeries, but is playing because your front office was so jacked with the cap they couldn’t even pull up a guy from Henderson to fill in (who’d never even started a game in the NHL), and then calling out him is textbook under the bus tossing.
Again, a rough year but they happen in hockey more than any other sport.
THE hockey GOD
not buying it Roberto
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SinBin.vegas
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Apr 20
DeBoer said the reason to start Lehner in the first place was because “we pay him to win these games.” He added that he’s healthy and fresh and he thought after the NJD game that he wanted to give Robin another chance.
SinBin.vegas
@SinBinVegas
“The decision to start him, we pay him to start games like this. It’s the most important time of the year. He’s healthy he’s fresh he’s got a lot of energy. We need him at this point of the year. After that NJ game I felt like I wanted to give him the opportunity to bounce back.”
and more throwing under the bus by this comment NOT
SinBin.vegas
@SinBinVegas
·
Apr 24
DeBoer says the decision to start Thompson is based only on performance and not related to health of either goalie.
He added Lehner dressing as the backup means they are confident in him if they have to turn to him.
and another one throwing his goalie under the, wait a minuter, read it !
SinBin.vegas
@SinBinVegas
·
Apr 24
“In overtime, we have to cash in on that power play. That’s the difference between winning and losing at this time of year.” -DeBoer
and many, many many more if you listen to ALL of the presser and not cherry pick because some people are drinking the spiked kool aid
Cody
Lehner a “legit top 15 goaltender.” Sorry hahahahahahahhahahahahahahhaahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahqhhqhqhqhqhahah. How can you be stabbed in the heart if you have none?
Roberto
By metrics (of which you can do your own research), he is top 15 when healthy. And his cap number (of which you can do your own research), is a solid one for what he can do in goal, when healthy.
Can he stay healthy? I don’t know. Should the team have given up on Fleury, when he had a rough patch after his father passed way? Absolutely not.
But as all of us in Vegas know, you play the hand you’re dealt, you don’t complain when things don’t go your way, and you tip well no matter if you win or lose.
Daryl
When healthy? When has RL played injured? Do you have any facts that support your claim that he has played injured?
Al Edwards
Julie – sad day in Hooterville the grinch sold Christmas -. have you got your summer plans finalized – I assume you will be cheering for Edmonton now Vegas is done? Talk about the entertainment capital of the world – drama, drama, drama – unfortunately most bad. From a story book beginning to a disasters’ ending – one tweak after another to destroy what they had. I think the worse part of this given Foley’s military background is that loss of creditability and integrity – those things are almost impossible to repair and do irreparable damage. Their actions – the splash brothers particularly and all others involved should be ashamed – that includes Foley as I would think he had to agree or was not smart enough not to agree with some of their actions, You have to admire Foley’s goal. while maybe not realist as proven, it obviously created a very unhealthy environment to play under which I feel had a lot to do with them loosing. Here’s to next year Go Oilers for this one.
THE hockey GOD
“There’s one person that I really trust who’s really plugged into this situation. He said to me ‘be careful, because this one, there’s a lot going on under the surface. Be very, very careful this is going to be a tricky story. A very tricky story.’”
in other words Friedman, like most posters here, are full of shit.
Contact Tracer
If the peeps here are “full of SHIT” … YOU ARE METRO SEWER, CONFIRMED HOLDER OF THE MOST SHIT …. that’s why you’re The Hockey Turd.
THE hockey GOD
@ contact tracer, don’t start with me, your bull shit post was called out earlier.
Same ole clueless haters post here, they have nothing but speculation and hearsay. Nothing.
George L.
Looks like we found Lehner’s Sinbin account.
THG, you really need to pay attention to the team. Not your fantasy. The team
THE hockey GOD
@ george L
I am missing your point, I am not the greatest fan of wiggy biscuit you know. I coined that term here on sinbin.
So I am missing what you are getting at. See my long post above in regard to who’s throwing who under the bus.
THE hockey GOD
“be careful, because this one, there’s a lot going on under the surface. Be very, very careful this is going to be a tricky story. A very tricky story.’”
what part of this statement can’t you wrap your tiny brain around ???
knights fan in minny
and your perfect right
knights fan in minny
there you go patting yourself on the back again
Howard
THG, ok, the owner is instructing FO. U still suck George for not taking a stand and pushing back at the owner how not to build a hockey with buying a Cup..
In other words, team President still sucks.
THE hockey GOD
Howard
here is how that went down”
McPhee” I think we should be cautious in….”
Grape Stomper ” I want to win now because I may be dead in a year, do it or bam I get another president of operations”.
Case closed
knights fan in minny
you are a know it all
Howard
So quit George, simple.
A Fan
You have lost your ever loving mind. First you call yourself “The Hockey God”. Gross. And Freidman is WAYYYYYYYYY more connected to LEGITIMATE sources than you could ever dream of being.
Richie-Rich
good article from NBC Sports pretty much exactly how I feel about this incompetent front office and coach.
==============================
PRO HOCKEY TALK | NBC SPORTS S
Golden Knights have nobody to blame but themselves
By Adam Gretz
Apr 28, 2022, 12:24 PM EDT
Golden Knights
If you wanted to be generous you could point to a handful of reasons as to why the 2021-22 Vegas Golden Knights ended up being a colossal disappointment and spectacular failure on the ice.
The biggest reason, of course, might be injuries.
Mark Stone, Max Pacioretty, Alec Martinez, Reilly Smith, William Karlsson, and Robin Lehner all missed time this season (some of them significant time), while Jack Eichel did not make his season debut until January after being acquired in a blockbuster trade with the Buffalo Sabres.
With some better health luck their season almost certainly would have been different. Maybe this preseason Stanley Cup contender wouldn’t have fallen flat on its face and missed the playoffs entirely for the first time in its five-year existence.
But pointing to that — and only that — would be giving them an excuse. It would be giving them an easy way out. And quite frankly, they do not deserve an easy way out or your generosity because a lot of their problems this season were their own creation, while they failed to take care of their own business down the stretch when the schedule (and their health) should have been in their favor.
Let’s start with the injuries
The most significant of those belonged to Stone, Pacioretty, and Martinez. And that definitely took a toll, especially as it related to Pacioretty and Stone who both missed half of the season.
But the Golden Knights are not the only preseason playoff contender that lost key players for significant chunks of the season.
For example:
Washington played half of the season without Nicklas Backstrom, T.J. Oshie, and Anthony Mantha, which accounts for literally half of their top-six forwards, while also never having a consistent starting goalie.
Pittsburgh played half of the season without Evgeni Malkin (who was only a fraction of his normal self when he did play) and had various injuries to Sidney Crosby, Bryan Rust, Jason Zucker and Teddy Blueger for significant parts of the season.
Colorado had injuries to Nathan MacKinnon, Gabriel Landeskog, Sam Girard, Bowen Byram, Devon Toews, Valeri Nichushkin, and Nazem Kadri at different times.
All three of those teams comfortably qualified for the playoffs in significantly tougher divisions than the one Vegas played in. Beyond that, once Vegas did get healthier down the stretch with the returns of Stone, Pacioretty, and Martinez, not to mention a healthy Jack Eichel, they only went 3-3-4 in their past 10 games with losses to Vancouver (twice!), San Jose, New Jersey, and Chicago, not to mention a crucial head-to-head to loss to Dallas. The New Jersey loss is especially unforgivable given that it came at home, against a Devils team that entered the night having lost 13 of 16, has not won a game since, and was playing without its best player (Jack Hughes) and starting a third-string goalie (Andrew Hammond). How do you drop that game with your season on the line?
Even worse, the key players that they were missing for most of the season were mostly invisible during these key games.
• Eichel had five points over the past 10 games and was largely invisible in most games.
• Stone had zero goals and one assist.
• Pacioretty had three goals.
• Jonathan Marchessault had one goal.
Their top offensive players during the stretch run were Chandler Stephenson and Evgenii Dadonov, a player that would not have even been on the roster had his no-trade clause been messed up at the NHL trade deadline. And that does not even get into the fact that in their three consecutive shootout losses their skaters went a shocking and historically bad 0-for-17, wasting a valiant effort from goalie Logan Thompson who did everything he could to save their season.
Before that 10-game stretch began Vegas looked like a team that was starting to put it all together and could potentially be a nightmare matchup if it got in, and there was very good reason to believe in them once they got those players back. And then they got them back in the lineup and the bottom totally fell out.
Problems beyond injuries
Injuries are a fact of life in the NHL and every team has to deal with them and there is not much you can do to control them. Some teams are able to overcome it. Vegas did not. But Vegas also did itself no favors with the things it could control, including roster construction and its entire organizational philosophy.
From the very beginning of its existence Vegas has operated like a pre-salary cap spender where every big name player that becomes available is a realistic target for them, no matter the cost and no matter what they have to do to get it. They act like the salary cap does not exist and are always in the running for every star that becomes available, with Eichel being the most recent.
Individually, there is nothing wrong with any of the signings or trades they made. Stone and Pacioretty have been great. Alex Pietranagelo is a top-pairing defender. Eichel should (emphasis on should) be a cornerstone player going forward. But it has all helped cause havoc on their salary cap situation, especially when combined with other moves on the fringes, and cut into their depth, both in terms of what they have given up in trades and limiting what they can do with the rest of their roster.
For example: Taking on Dadonov’s contract from Ottawa, only to trade for Eichel a couple of months later, knowing full well the salary cap gymnastics it would require.
Or signing Robin Lehner to a long-term deal with a $5 million cap hit when they already had Marc-Andre Fleury, eventually creating a situation where they were going to have to essentially give one of them away due to cap constraints. They of course sent away Fleury just a couple of months after he won the 2020-21 Vezina Trophy. In hindsight, it was a catastrophic decision.
It was another example of just how cutthroat and ruthless this organization has been in its quest to add the next superstar and chase after the Cup.
Vegas fired Gerard Gallant early in year three (with a winning record!) after being behind the bench for consecutive playoff appearances and a Cup Final appearance in year one. They replaced him with Peter DeBoer, who has now created drama with two different goalies in the past three years (Fleury, for benching him in the playoffs for Lehner; and then Lehner for his handling of his injury situation and seemingly calling him out for not being available down the stretch this year).
All of it together almost makes it seem like there is no plan beyond “see big name player; acquire big name player; worry about the rest later.”
It ultimately looks like a directionless organization that succeeds by accident rather than some smart grand plan. It all finally caught up to them this season and it cost them what should have been a guaranteed trip to the playoffs.
Now we get to see what happens this offseason as they try to clean up the gigantic mess they made for themselves.
Frank
RR – this article sums it up quite nicely. Knights have no-one to blame but themselves for the situation. The team looked unprepared and uninspired while supposedly fighting for their playoff lives these last 10 games. Something going on behind the scenes needs to be fixed this offseason. Again, I expect some big changes.
THE hockey GOD
what does it sum up ?
the writer is pot stirrer talking out of both sides of his mouth
“The biggest reason, of course, might be injuries.”
says this
then he says something completely different, completely ignoring man games lost as no. 2 in league to montreal, yet VGK gutted it out for 81 games.
I find his article contradictory and mostly bull spin.
Jeff
You couldn’t be more right. If you are going to compare the injury issue that the VGK had you need to do it with the teams that had comparable injury numbers. Quite frankly it would’ve been pretty historic if the VGK made the playoffs with their injury problems this season. People seem to forget not only how many players were injured but which players were injured. When you lose your captain for most of the season that’s bad news. Then he comes back and clearly is not even 50%. There were large parts of this season where the team played without 4 of their top 6 forwards and 3 of their top 6 defense and without their top 2 goaltenders. That’s not just some run of the mill injuries, it’s devastating injuries. Then you never get to see the team on the ice as it was meant to be constructed. By the time we did there was 10 games left in the season. It takes time for players to gel with each other it doesn’t happen in a couple games. To think we missed the playoffs by 2 or 3 points at the most is amazing to me.
Daryl
Those numbers are somewhat misleading…. They take into account Eichel’s injury from the date he was acquired. Well, VGK would have had to drop 3 players just to get Cap compliant to activate him. A very possible person would have been Smith, who eventually went on LITR. Then you have Dadanov and another player who went on LITR who wouldn’t have counted because they wouldn’t have been around. You also have other backups, like our backup goalie, who went on LITR but shouldn’t count because they wouldn’t have gotten very much game time anyway.
Yes vhk was without a lot of game time minutes, but it’s not as bad as some try to make it out to be. And do you honestly think VGK would of had any chance this year with those injuries if they played in the Metro or anywhere in the other division???
For the record, the Pens were without major players like Crosby, Letang, Malkin, Patterson, Blueger, Rust, Jarry… And look at what they were able to accomplish
Daryl
None of that is accurate… Just ask thg
Howard
Trust me Daryl , it took me a while to figure it out. THG is GMP, not KM. KM isn’t the problem. George is with his over blown ego. No NHL team President should be posting on any board.
George could not win Cup with Capitals, He won’t win in Vegas either – George needs to go and Foley needs to leave well-alone and get top hockey men who will take a stand to him, not weaklings like George McPhee.
THE hockey GOD
Howard, wait a minute. I thought I was wiggy biscuit???
knights fan in minny
no your mr know it all
Julie
I see that now, thank you, Howard. One clue is how he balked at the article RR posted above. Add that to the thousand other whiny posts and it all makes sense. The Ozark recaps we’re just to throw us off.
VGK fan
Howard,
I think you’re right THG is GMP it does explain the constant need to take shots at the 3rd winningest goalie in NHL history.
It also explains why THG needs to call him the farce of franchise because he believes he himself is the the face of the franchise its just jealousy!!
THE hockey GOD
adam geek is a moron, this article by Ian Kennedy is more like it.
When the expansion Vegas Golden Knights made the Stanley Cup Final in their inaugural season, fans were enamoured by the brand of hockey and entertaining atmosphere on and off the ice in Sin City.
In subsequent seasons, Vegas continued to push more chips onto the table, trading draft picks and prospects in search of immediate success. Each season, the team looked on the brink of Stanley Cup glory, until their wild run came to a crashing halt this season.
Vegas, playing a pair of must-win games against San Jose and Dallas down the stretch, blew leads and failed to secure crucial points. As Golden Knights head coach Pete DeBoer said following their loss to Dallas, however, “our guys left everything on the ice.”
In DeBoer’s own estimation, it was the best the Golden Knights could do. Finally, it was a shootout loss to the Chicago Blackhawks, another near miss that ended the Golden Knights’ playoff hopes.
Throughout the season, Vegas suffered injuries to key players including Jack Eichel, Mark Stone, Max Pacioretty, Alec Martinez and Robin Lehner, but as The Hockey News’ Adam Proteau explained, injuries aren’t solely to blame.
“[T]he injury bug is not the sole determinant of the Golden Knights’ disappointing season,” he wrote. “Vegas also has been hurt by its inability to play defense down the stretch.”
Proteau also pointed to disappointing special teams results as the Golden Knights ranked 21st on the power play and 19th in penalty killing.
Now, having missed the playoffs for the first time in the franchise’s five-year history, Vegas’ all-in gamble could go bust, and plunge the organization into a long and painful stretch.
To be fair, the Golden Knights are still in a win-now mode and could challenge for a Stanley Cup next season. Their core, including Eichel, Stone, William Karlsson, Chandler Stephenson, Shea Theodore and Alex Pietrangelo, remains signed through next season and many are locked up long-term. If Vegas’ winning ways return and it can continue playing with house money, this long-term security might be a blessing. If this season turns out to be more than an aberration, the Golden Knights fan base will be in for a losing streak that no amount of luck will fix.
Next season Vegas has only 18 players signed at a combined cap hit of $83,866,667. With an estimated 2022-23 NHL salary cap of $82.5 million, Vegas general manager Kelly McCrimmon will need to shed salary before he can even attempt to field a team. McCrimmon sought to address this in part by trading Evgenii Dadonov at the deadline, which turned into an embarrassing ordeal involving an unknown no-trade clause.
Perhaps the most telling sign in Vegas’ gamble of its own future is the fact that as the 2021-22 season comes to a close, not a single active roster player was drafted and developed by the franchise. This season, Nicolas Hague was the only homegrown regular in the lineup until he suffered a season-ending lower body injury with a month remaining in the campaign.
In building their current roster, Vegas traded away four past first-round selections and another first-round pick, as well as several second-round picks. The four first-round choices they traded include Nick Suzuki (13th overall, 2017), Cody Glass (sixth overall, 2017), Erik Brannstrom (15th overall, 2017) and Peyton Krebs (17th overall, 2019), while the 2018 first-round pick they traded became Detroit Red Wings forward Joe Veleno.
Of that group, Suzuki could be the player who haunts Vegas the most, as he is currently the leading scorer for the Montreal Canadiens at 22 years old. He would have been the youngest player on the Vegas roster this season, and his scoring and ability to stay healthy would have been a major boost to the Golden Knights. The player acquired for Suzuki, Pacioretty was impactful when he was in the lineup but played less than half the season and will become an unrestricted free agent after next season.
Vegas’ remaining prospect pool is also shallow. It’s a group ranked 25th by The Hockey News in their recent Future Watch issue. Only a few players — notably Brendan Brisson, Ivan Morozov and Zach Dean — look like they’ll be able to replace aging veterans in the coming seasons, but none are elite.
This offseason, Vegas will need to find a new home for multiple players in order to have enough cap space to field a full roster. It will almost certainly involve moving out a valuable veteran who would benefit their playoff chances in 2022-23. Vegas’ expansion plan was a gamble. While they rode the high of winning for four years, the Golden Knights’ odds for future success are now far from a sure thing.
THE hockey GOD
not entirely true that he wrote “not a single active roster player was drafted and developed by the franchise” Whitecloud, Kolesar, Coghlin, LT and Patera ( and maybe another I missed) were developed by franchise.
Take what these “writers” write with a grain of salt.
hdbiker7851
RR – cleaning up this mess needs to start with the splash brothers packing their bags and hitting the road. The culture which has eroded this team will not change as long as they are in the mix. The good question is who you replace them with – I have no idea but can assure you it won’t be easy based on the reputation this organization has developed in five short years. Anyone interested in creditability and integrity probably won’t take the job as this organization has neither. From a Cinderella unbelievable start to the toilet all by their own doing. I feel bad for the players that suffered thru this never knowing from day to day despite being assured otherwise if they would be around the following day. Yes they are professionals but they are also human which by the actions of the FO they seem to have forgot. For Foley to fire the bunch of them would be fitting. Yes he is the final word I suspect on the goings on but you don’t run a hockey team like most businesses are run which is no prize I might add. Seems he may have learned a very expensive lesson but who said education was cheap. It is great to have a realistic goal, which is was not, nice if it happens, but which probably attributed to much of the unnecessary drama. Time to right the ship start with a realistic plan, swallow the pride, admit they screwed up and get the fans – your revenue behind you and back in the seats. It’s not easy to repair the damage that has been done but possible with the commitment to do so.
THE hockey GOD
biker , you boot those two you lose a very valuable pipeline to
bread basket of Canada hockey youth talent to another franchise.
Hdbiker7851
I don’t think so there are many who follow Canadain hockey and have their eyes open. The splash brothers need to go as the culture they have established will never change and you will have the same mess. Injuries aside these players unfortunately were not playing to their full potential – they had no reason to as regardless how well they did they were always wondering who is next. You can’t operate under that environment and expect success as it doesn’t mean or guarantee anything. IMHO.
THE hockey GOD
imho the culture is spin by loser low life, girly boy, writers, like one of these articles who stir the pot without doing their research.
it’s these type of “writers” that must go.
I’d like to hear from wiggy biscuit on this matter.
Back in the day “In Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Detroit Red Wings, Leaf defenseman Bob Baun fell to the ice in excruciating pain. He came back to play in game 7 and won Stanley Cup.”
I don’t recall which season it was, but I remember that Sergei Fedorov hurt his shoulder. It was very painfual,” Bowman said. “It was bothering him and he wasn’t sure whether he’d play.
“Gordie said to me, ‘Let me talk to him. Sergei’s coming down to the rink, so I’ll come down with him.’ He told Sergei, ‘ Federov ended up playing.
And many more.
What is this turning into the National pansies hockey league.
Don’t drink the shit stirrers kool aid, it’s just hate , spin, and BS.
Daryl
What I find funny is that RL has criticized coaches in the past for how coaches handle injuries, even coaches he’s ne er played for, yet when asked by VGK to suck it up, he does so without hesitation??? Sorry, I don’t buy it. And if you are going with Thompson for every game does it really matter who the backup is? If LT gets pulled, the game is already over so it doesn’t really matter who the backup is.
As someone else posted, RL lives drama, he NEEDS drama. Without it, he doesn’t know who he is
And then you have PDB saying he doesn’t know anything about any injury or RL needing surgery
THE hockey GOD
daryl
smartest post you made all year.
TS
Thg and Daryl: AHA!! There really CAN be PEACE in the HOCKEY WORLD!! See….you two CAN be CIVIL!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!
Cody
“Be very very careful, it’s a very very tricky situation.” Isn’t it always with Robin Lehner? Have never seen another player receive the level of excuses and unearned chances he does.
The REAL hockey god
thg is a typical full of sh*t internet blowhard know-it-all.
Hdbiker7851
I don’t think so there are many who follow Canadain hockey and have their eyes open. The splash brothers need to go as the culture they have established will never change and you will have the same mess. Injuries aside these players unfortunately were not playing to their full potential – they had no reason to as regardless how well they did they were always wondering who is next. You can’t operate under that environment and expect success as it doesn’t mean or guarantee anything. IMHO.
Richie-Rich
Almost every player making more than $4 million was overpaid by about $1 million per year. That’s on McCrimmon.
THE hockey GOD
R R actually that is on the grape stomper, try to get it right next time.
VGK fan
RR
You are correct with the exception of #81 and #27 this year.
Tony
Add gastric bypass to the list of surgeries needed for Lehner
Galdom
And yes Tony, Lehner is fat. A fat Lehner, with injuries to his knee, shoulder and who knows what else had the exact same save percentage this season as Marc Andre Fleury who many think would have been the solution this year. THAT’S A FACT
Daryl
You just said who knows what other injuries then use that as an excuse and state it as fact. How can it be a fact if we don’t know for a fact he’s had any other injuries or if he has even played injured? From the way he’s called out other coaches, some he hasn’t even played for, it makes it very difficult for me to believe he would play injured
Skip
DeBoer and McCrimmon made this current mess. They should both be let go.
Hockey Fan
Hindsight is usually 20/20, but looking back, I wonder how this team would have been if instead of making trades for shiny new players, they had simply developed their prospects and kept their original players.
They gave up their future for a cup now. It looks like it is backfiring. I have always overestimated the VGK thinking they were going to be perennial cup winners only to see them fail year after year. Although many are saying wait until next year when everyone is healthy, with cap moves, this may be the Vegas team of the future. The stars will all be a year older and more injury prone.
Vegas may have a very tough future ahead of them
THE hockey GOD
@ fan
very insightful post, and you are right. Everyone knew what the plan was.
Unfortunately there were many “new shiny toys “out there. I was really hoping they would have made a play for the two players the LAKs signed in off season. But evidently they didn’t want to come to Vegas. Instead we got Boris and back up ghoulie.
I also read somewhere that this RL “organizational” thing had more to so with the “team’ wanting him “dressed” for SAL CAP Issues. And that it was very unlikely that he would ever get into the game. Then Kolesar got hurt, and someone else got hurt, that allowed them some room. So like the other fake stories, the writers are shooting bird shot in air, hoping to hit something. But as usual completely miss the mark.
Galdom
A couple of things on Marc-André Fleury. First of all if anybody criticizes this post they are a moron, it’s not because of a “my opinion is right and yours is not mentality” but because this post is not something that can be disputed because it is based on actual facts.
This thing about him making the playoffs this year being some great accomplishment of his is just so stupid it’s mind-boggling. He got traded to a team that is in a playoff position.
Here are some truths and facts. Indisputable because they are as true as snow is white and mustard is yellow.
Marc Andre Fleury was not acquired by Minnesota because of any shortcomings by Cam Talbot. He was brought in because of his experience and to strengthen the goaltending position.
Since the March 21st trade deadline Fleury and Talbot have been in a strict platoon. None of them have played two games in a row. That’s a fact. Can’t be disputed.
During this time Marc Andre Fluery has played 10 games and he just been okay. His numbers have been actually below league average.
In 10 games with Minnesota he has a .905 save percentage and a 2.91 goals against average. Are we going to blame this on him playing on a bad team again because he is not on Chicago anymore?
Cam Talbot has played 11 games since the trade deadline when Fluery was acquired and his numbers are as follows.
In those 11 games he has an extraordinary .925 save percentage and 2.23 goals against average. The teams record in those games is 8-0-3. Basically, Talbot has not lost a single game in regulation since the trade deadline.
These are facts that cannot be disputed. This is as true as, Vegas has missed the playoffs, Vegas was 0-17 in the last 17 shootout attempts. So this isn’t a post that requires any rebottle since it is 100% fact-based.
This is not some kind of shot at Marc Andre Fleury. I don’t really care what he does since he is not on Vegas anymore but let’s not pretend that he did something special to make the post season like some people that actually posted. ROTFL. Factually, he got traded to Minnesota and is in a platoon situation with Cam Talbot and has been outplayed by Cam Talbot. I would think that maybe that management doesn’t trust Talbot which is why they acquired Fleury but Talbot has been lights out and Fleury has numbers that are below league average.
Is it even a forgone conclusion that Fluery is the starter for game 1 of the playoffs? Maybe but his play hasn’t suggested that he deserves that. Or will Minnesota continue to employ them both in a platoon. Or is Talbot the starter for game 1 of the playoffs?
No rebuttal required as this post was fact-based and facts cannot be challenged. This post has nothing to do with Robin Lehner.
This post was more about the super inflated opinions of what some VGK fans think Marc André Fleury provides at this point in his career.. Fluery has been at best average and perhaps slightly below average this season.
Here is one more fact to ponder….. warning, it is based on 100% fact and the Internet is at your disposal to fact check this.
Robin Lehner with a multitude of injuries to his shoulder, knee and who the hell else knows what’s wrong with him because everybody who works for the team lies finished the season with a .907 save percentage. I’m not saying that is great but he played in front of a shitty team, people stop calling this team good and he played hurt.
Marc Andre Fluery finished the season with the exact identical .907 save percentage. The narrative that he played in front of a bad Chicago team is not a valid excuse anymore especially considering that his save percentage with Minnesota was an even worse .905.
In summary, statistical facts clearly show that Marc-André Fleury was not stopping the puck at a higher rate than the broken down Robin Lehner.
The thought process out there that Fleury is some kind of God is so flawed which is why I point it out from time to time. There is no doubt how outstanding he was in year one bringing the team deep into the playoffs and the great things he has done with putting the franchise on the map. but we don’t live in the past. This also goes for the stupid misfit nickname that’s irrelevant at this time because Karlsson is also a shell of his former self.
Robin Lehner is not the answer for this team and is way down the list of the biggest issues that caused this team to have a poor season. Smart people like Daryl who doesn’t like Lehner but can be objective realize this. The team was garbage because they couldn’t score and the power play was pathetic. Those are the biggest factors and Lehner or Fleury can’t fix that. Lehner and Fleury can’t score goals.
OK, I have to say it one more time. A broken down injured Lehner had a .907 save percentage. Marc Andre Fleury has the same identical .907 save percentage and an even worse .905 save percentage playing for an elite team. With these facts how do people in the same sentence summarize that Lehner was garbage this year and Fleury was good and did a great thing by making the playoffs.
MYTH BUSTER……
Marc Andre Fleury was not going to stop this sinking ship this year. Not when he is saving pucks at the same rate as a broken down Lehner and not when he or Lehner can’t score goals or fix the power play.
Richie-Rich
Not criticizing the post, but I will add the fact that MAF has historically played more games in net, both totally in his career and on average during the season.
Since 2016, The Panda has averaged starting 45 games per season, or just a tad more than half. The Panda is 30 years old and should be in the prime of his career.
Since 2016, Fleury has averaged starting 48 games per season. Fleury is 37 years old.
If you were to compare The Panda to The Flower at the same age and years in the NFL you would see that MAF was averaging 59 games per season over the same time span (age 24 to 30).
Keeping that in mind, you have to wonder how KM could think that Lehner would stand the test of a full season in net when he’s never been able to come close to being a 1A starting goaltender. Averaging 45 games per season is not someone who you pay $5 million for 5 years to. And the idea that Brossoit was going to take up that slack was another incompetent analysis.
VGK fan
Gladom,
I would just like to say congratulations to the 3rd winningest goalie in NHL history and current Vezina winner on his 16 consecutive playoff season obviously Minnesota see something in MAF.
Jeff
Fake Vezina winner btw. Anyone who thinks Fleury was the best goaltender in the league last season is just fooling themselves. That is FACT. Go look at the stats. He was the sedimental pick
Daryl
Are you still crying??? Look at the stats, we’re some of his numbers not better??? Bye bye
Daryl
A couple things…. You started out with facts then slid to your opinion, an opinion you use to make RL seem a little better and MAF a little worse.
First, I replied to your other post and said Talbot should start that he was playing really good.
Now, you compare MAF record vs Talbot but unless they are playing the same quality team, you can’t use that measurement. With that said, I did not look at who played against who so you might still be correct. Secondly, jst like for Eichel or any other player on a new team it takes an adjustment period to learn your teammates. That is also true for goalies. Third, you use the excuse that RL was injured. That is an assumption. There are no facts to back up your statement that RL was playing injured at any point. Fourth, you said RL was playing behind a bad team (defense). Well, it’s the same defense that led the team last year. Did they really get bad in that short of a time period? Fifth, MAF played in 11 more games than RL. The more games you play, generally the lower those stats you mention go. Last thing, RL had 1 SO, MAF had 4, all of which came on a team a whole lot worse than VGK. Sorry, one more last thing… MAF is 1-0 vs RL
Daryl
Now, I will 100% agree with you that RL is not the biggest issue. That would be scoring, the PP and even the PK. The inky thing that would change that is if there were issues in the locker room that were caused by RL.
One other thing… MAF is 9-2 since arriving on MIN so yes, he has helped them
hdbiker7851
Daryl – you are 1000% correct – the problem is much deeper than RL – he doesn’t help it as it starts at the top. The environment that has been created by the top group has toppled this team. Posters can say whatever is on their mine about this and that which in all probability is as correct as any other opinion – only exception to that statement is THg which is never an opinion just a lot of babble. Until the environment is corrected (changed) for the better the PP, PK etc , etc probably is not correctable. They have had a year and a half to fix PP and at the same time the PK has gone south that is not coincident. You will never have a champion ship team until all are on the same page and that starts at the top. Attitude is more important than talent and skill in many cases. Have a great summer = the boys are back in town to clean out their lockers.
hdbiker7851
Galdom – your long-winded post while maybe factual – assuming it is if you say so, doesn’t eliminate the drama that Lehner always seems to be involved in which in my opinion is a distraction to the team. IMHO Fleury means more to the teams that he has been with than just ice time – that means a great deal. You may not agree which is fine, but I believe is you checked it out that is an undisputable fact. I am not a Lehner hater or anything close to that I believe management panicked for whatever reason to fix a problem that didn’t exist and created a huge problem overall.
Galdom
It’s a free country, post anything you wish. If anybody wants to post that Marc Andre Fleury is doing great things for Minnesota or would have been the answer this year go right ahead. But there is nothing in the way Fleury has performed this year that would support that opinion.
Julie
You seem to be inferring that position from the posts. Confusion is ok, but no one is saying that.
Galdom
Everyone has different opinions so this post isn’t directed to everybody because everybody doesn’t think the same. I don’t know what you mean by confusion.
All this post was about was the FACTS that no matter what kind of excuses a Fleury fan or a Lehner fan can use to support their position on who has performed better this year, The statistics say that both goalies have been average or slightly below average.
A Lehner fan can say that his goalie was badly injured for most of the year playing in front of a crappy hockey team that can’t score goals and is not in the playoffs.
A Fleury fan can say that he played in front of a bad team in Chicago although that excuse sort of becomes invalidated now that his save percentage is even worse playing in front of a good Minnesota team.
This post wasn’t directed to Julie in particular but directed at people who say dumb things like, “All I can say is that Marc Andre Fluery is in the playoffs and Lehner isn’t.” like he earned it. How stupid is that??? Fleury hasn’t performed that well at all this year and was merely traded to a good team in which he is being outperformed by the other guy Cam Talbot. That’s the actual truth.
All I have ever been saying was that Lehner gets treated unfairly here by many. And some of the comments and posts continued to suggest that when some name him as the number one reason for the teams failures and that Marc Andre Fluery is actually having a good season this year and helped his team make the playoffs. Those things are simply untrue.
I know I sometimes display things that are completely factual and I do the research and that may make some feel uncomfortable because it’s much easier to just spew something that is untrue. I know it’s much easier to say that Lehner was garbage this year and Fleury was good this year when it is not true and not factual. These facts are to clarify some myths and truths. Not to get Fluery fans angry
Frank
Yes – both Fleury and Lehner have had statistically poor seasons, agreed. This leaves out the history of both goaltenders and what happened here in Vegas. I still think Flower is/was a better fit for our team. There is something to be said also for off ice attributes – pointing to my previous post that Lehner is just drama. Water under the bridge now. Hopefully good changes coming this offseason (less drama – see DeBoer, Lehner etc….).
Galdom
Let’s hope so Frank
Vegas Baby
Julie, save yourself the trouble. He is obsessed with Fleury because he doesn’t think Fleury was/is great and Fleury, despite all the drama of the mean tweet and stats that he dug out of his black Fleury box, Fleury came out the winner from the Vegas bs. And Fleury made it to the playoffs again!
Galdom
Vegas baby, Julie is an adult. You don’t have to speak for her. She could say whatever she wants. I just pointed out that the two goalies had the same numbers this year. What’s with your anger and always wanting to reply to my posts that you always say that you don’t read. You obviously read them. And I do consider you to be one of my biggest fans and I truly do appreciate you reading them. If Julie wishes to read my post and disagree with something I said and that’s her prerogative.
Stop being angry and trying to tell people what to do. Don’t tell Julie or anybody else what to do? Shame on you. And calling people names like Pistol Pipsqueak and The Hockey Goddess because you don’t agree or like what they have to say is very immature. I wasn’t even directing any comments to you yet you wish to engage and try to start an argument.
It continues to be your choice to read my posts and it seems that you continue to read them. Again, thank you at least for that.
VGK fan
Minnesota disagrees with you.
Galdom
What in God’s name are you talking about. Minnesota disagrees with me? About what????
VGK fan
You hate the 3rd winningest goalie in NHL history Minnesota doesn’t!
knights fan in minny
you are correct vgk fan flower is very well liked here
Galdom
Again, my post was fact-based just like Richie Rich’s recent long post has many facts when he is quoting what players like stone, Pacioretty, Eichel and Marchessault has done down the stretch.
In 55 games this year Marc Andre Fleury has not stopped the puck at any higher of a rate than Robin Lehner has in his 44 games played this season. And in 10 games all be it a small sample size, Fleury has stopped the puck at an even lower rate (.905) in front of a good team. (Minnesota)
THE hockey GOD
@ galdom, your post is too long to read. So I am a moron.
Shoot me.
Have a cookie. Oreo, macaroon, or one of those jerry seinfeld big black/white ones (I get sick every time I had one of those)
Richie-Rich
My analysis, comparing and contrasting the two goaltenders as far as numbers of games played per year during the same age span (24-30) is crystal clear in that The Flower averaged 59 games per year to Lehner’s 45 games. That’s 14 more games and additionally these were the most productive years of The Flower’s career.
How McCrimmon decided that Lehner was the right goalie to retain is beyond imagination. He obviously did not do enough homework on it.
Lehner has never shown through his career that he could start enough games for a Cup Contender. The idea that Brossoit would be able to pick up the other 37 games was clearly a miss by the VGK front office and they SHOULD PAY WITH THEIR JOBS.
Galdom
Hey Richie Rich. I cannot deny as the facts clearly display that Marc-André Fleury is more of a horse and the prototypical number one goalie in regards to workload. It is true that Robin Lehner has never played a season in which he started the majority of his teams games. He is more of a goalie that is suited to be part of a tandem than a clear-cut number one. thank you for pointing that out and I would agree with you because the statistics support that.
My reasons for bringing up Lehner once in a while is just because I do think the fans gave him a raw deal and that management was terrible in their handling of him as they were in the case of Fleury as well.
I agree with everything you said about the front office
Richie-Rich
That we agree on. This front office and the coaching staff treated both goalies poorly. Now we will see what, if anything, is done to correct all of this in the offseason.
I suspect nothing, but more original players being shipped out.
Tim
I just read all the posts and please enough about Lehner. We’ve got much bigger problems as an organization being tagged ruthless, heartless, cutthroat. This is how the rest of the hockey world views us and our players aren’t stupid they read national articles as we do. What do you think is going through there minds right now before our last game. We are not the destination we once were and maybe a lot of players would welcome a trade. These are our real problems restoring confidence with the fan base and treating a team as a team not a piece of meat. I’m not sure this group can do that I think the line has been drawn and they’ve crossed it. To restore confidence first goal then get the pieces you believe in and trade the others. Someone has a lot of work ahead of them it won’t be easy fixing the last three years of mistakes.
Galdom
Hi Tim, hope you are well. Thank you for your post. I’m comforted by the fact that you want to hear less about Lehner. Even though I brought it up we are on the same page in regards to what the biggest problems for this team are this year.
Incredibly, some people still think that Lehner was the number one problem and I guess I have issue with that. Before today I have written a bunch of posts, (the ones that Vegas baby doesn’t read but comments on) that absolutely roasts the front office. We are in complete agreement there. The front office and there lies has been a disgrace and embarrassing.
Galdom
Tim, as per your request I can stop posting about Lehner but the headline of the article in regards to this comment section is “ Organization requested injured Lehnerplay for stretch run” so I do sort of feel like I was staying on topic.
And I found it interesting that both Lehner and Fleury performed statistically nearly exactly the same this year and I wanted to post that because it is relevant in regards to what I feel was a lot of the unfair treatment that Lehner received from the fan base and front office. Shitty front office didn’t do well by Fleury either.
Let’s hope we got some major changes coming to thr Front office
Shaggy
I’m a Blackhawks fan and yeah they suck now , i was never impressed with Lehner, he was a basketcase early in his career.
I was glad when Chicago got rid of him , super pissed Crow didn’t finish his career there.
Actually was excited about the season when MAF came on board but it didn’t work out because Chicago had shit in front of him, he’s doing great in Minnesota now and yet again has another chance at a cup run, last year he chpked a bit with that oddball goal for Anderson, he gets traded whatever but look who’s back in the saddle with Minnie.
I’m sure some people won’t like my comment but had Vegas never had MAF they’d never had accomplished what they did , should have ket him ride out his contract there instead of dumping him in the windy city.
Daryl
I completely agree with part of your comment… Without MAF the magic of season 1 never happens
A Fan
You have lost your ever loving mind. First you call yourself “The Hockey God”. Gross. And Freidman is WAYYYYYYYYY more connected to LEGITIMATE sources than you could ever dream of being.
Jim Boehm
Bill Foley will never see a Stanley Cup. This team has the Fleury Curse for trading the Hall of Fame GOALIE for nothing. The Curse started with all key players getting injured at the same time. It will go on for years.
Jim
Bill Foley will never see a Stanley Cup. This team has the Fleury Curse for trading the Hall of Fame GOALIE for nothing. The Curse started with all key players getting injured at the same time. It will go on for years.