The saga at the end of the season between the pipes for the Golden Knights was, well, messy.
It started with Robin Lehner fighting reports of his injuries publicly and it ended with him serving as the backup in a must-win game when he had already decided his season was over and he’d undergo shoulder surgery.
In between, there were soft goals, scathing public comments about his play, a goalie pull during a tie game, a press release about a maintenance day, and a whole lot of speculation.
It’s the second time in three seasons with Pete DeBoer behind the VGK bench that drama about the goalie has marred the end of a season. At least this time there weren’t any graphic memes on Twitter.
So now, the focus turns to the simple question of “can Pete DeBoer and Robin Lehner coexist as head coach and starting goalie of this team?”
During his postseason media availability, DeBoer detailed his entire decision-making process during the final few weeks of the season and even went as far as to express regret that he used the term “healthy” about Lehner down the stretch. He then pointed to the situation as the main reason why it got so contentious.
It shouldn’t be a surprise that there’s friction at the end of a tough season between coaches and players or even players and players. Everyone’s frustrated, everyone’s pushing, there’s lots of tough conversations that are had down the stretch in those situations and you are pushing people to max amount because we need it. This isn’t something that’s unique to us or our group or Robin Lehner. -DeBoer
Lehner has yet to speak publicly since the end of the season and his subsequent successful should surgery and neither the front office nor the owner have made assurances that DeBoer would return as head coach next season.
But, the President of Hockey Operations had a strong opinion when asked if there was any concern about the relationship between coach and goalie.
I’m not. There’s been some noise about that but… (pause)… People get over it. –George McPhee on Bob McCown Podcast
DeBoer had plenty of positive comments about Lehner as well.
I have no doubt about Robin Lehner’s ability. None. I’ve seen it first hand. We’ve seen him at an elite level, what he’s capable of doing. -DeBoer
Further complicating the issue is the fact that the Golden Knights have a backup set to make nearly $2.5 million in Laurent Brossoit (who was good until he got hurt), and a rookie who grabbed the position by the horns and nearly willed his team into the playoffs himself while Lehner was out.
The last time the Golden Knights experienced goalie controversy, they surprisingly brought everyone (Fleury, Lehner, DeBoer) back. It resulted in a Vezina trophy and then a trade of the goalie that won it which netted Vegas absolutely nothing.
This time, there are plenty of options, and while common sense would say a lot must be done to unify the position for next season, history tells us the newest controversy may have just begun.
Obvious
Lehner has played the 2 Mc’clowns like a fiddle
In the bubble plays a few good games
Immediately signs a big contract… then denies it
Right after he needs shoulder surgery
Play mediocre afterwards
Has abandoned the team numerous times for a variety of reasons which was swept under the carpet for damage control
Injured, not injured, pouty pants when pulled despite laying an egg… many times
Cancer in dressing room
There is a reason he’s never lasted long on any team
Leave to the Mc’clowns to get taken for a ride simply cause they and Petey didn’t like Fleury and we’re sooo desperate
If everything was known what’s all happened with the psycho, fans would be clamoring to dump him asap
Daryl
This organization is too proud to admit they were wrong on anything…. so don’t expect any changes, either with the coaches or the players
Tim
Daryl, you are so right there ego’s are so big they feel infallible.
Danny
Is it important that a sports organization be transparent with personnel moves and thoughts? Or that an organization publicly declare when it was right or wrong. I think not.
Daryl
It has nothing to do with declaring anything…. by making certain moves, or not making certain moves, proves a point. VGK FO won’t do certain things because they don’t want to admit they made a mistake…. not to us as fans but to themselves
Blitz
Worse, they get every opportunity to talk about it and reassure fans (remember fans not ‘media people’) that this problem is being handled and is fine, but then for the Nth time are smug as shit about it. Fuck the front office! I’ll give PETER credit, he was at least eloquent about the situation. The Mc-d-bags not so much. Lies, smugness, dysfunction…the golden knights.
Julie
DeBoer has a law degree, I think he thinks like one at times and that’s what we’re seeing now.
Side note:. I realize now why “the tweet” keeps being brought up and sticks in the craw of some people. It’s because Walsh was right about PDB. And that really irks the people who wanted Fleury gone. It’s a permanent reminder of how right Walsh was and how wrong those people are today after seeing how all of this played out this far.
Galdom
Nooooooooo!!!
The timing of the tweet was all wrong. Has nothing to do with anybody wanting anybody out of town. It was the middle of the playoffs where the rosters are frozen and the trade deadline is long past. All a tweet like that does is cause a potential distraction to the team. That’s very unfair to people who had nothing to do with the situation like Jonathan Marchessault, Nate Schmidt, Riley Smith, etc.
If Fleury’s agent Walsh or Fleury or both of them had an issue with the situation that’s something that you deal with either in the off-season or in private with the actual parties involved to not cause a distraction to the rest of the team. It was an extremely selfish move.
The entire thing was dealt with in a very immature childish fashion.
Cindy
This doesn’t need to be personal. Psycho?!?! Really?!?!? At least he’s been honest, which is more commendable and displaying more character than his coach and FO!
Bonne Covey
Applause!!!
NL
My 2c… Goals were the problem. Specifically the system put in place to generate them and its complete failure to do so. The offense and the top-skilled players are a mismatch. DeBoer runs it like a San Jose system with a Norris-caliber Brent Burns and traffic in front of the net. We don’t have these things, and I don’t think we should have a DeBoer trying to fit square pegs in round holes for much longer. Trotz being on the market should make a few eyebrows raise over at CNA, and soon.
Galdom
NL is correct. Lack of scoring is the problem
Tanner
Wrong…had the best goalie in the league and you shipped him off and got nothing out of it. Oh and now his team is in the playoffs, you couldn’t sell out a game until that goalie came back into town and beat your ass with an inferior team. Hilarious!!!
Last coach who made the playoffs when you fired him took his new team to the playoffs this year. Bye DeBoer go coach another team who you can’t bring to the playoffs…your failed actions have consequences! Your Fing Job!!!
Chris V
I have to put this out there one last time, then I will continue.
“The trade should have been Lehner and not Fleury”. (Ok, I choose to digress)
The fact VGK has a good level of promising talent between the pipes is very encouraging. I know Deboer has to recognize this. It would make absolute sense to keep Lehner going into the 2022/2023 season. He can hedge his bet with three proven goalies to choose from. Not to mention the ability to manage the salary cap issue that should be hanging over VGK’s head again next year.
The other elephant in the room is addressing injuries that plague certain players. I love Patches. I could be wrong but I don’t think he’s laced up an entire season since he’s been a Knight. Great player when he is on the ice. But year in and year out keep taking the cap hit would beg the question to be asked, “Is he worth it”? The over all injury issue runs deeper than what we are aware of until end of the season news that produces the “OMG he played with what” type of reports we hear about.
To your point about friction at the end of a season? Duh, It’s a given it will happen. You could say, “Chalk up another first for VGK”. Besides no matter the sport or work environment. Loosing is a breading ground of attention to the negative take always as a result of the short comings of all the collective efforts.
Anyway, that’s my two cents worth of commentary. I hope the VGK will make the changes that would put them in the finals next season with a cup run that will net them a Championship.
Love what you do and always look forward to hearing your take on all things VGK.
Go Knights Go!
Tim
It all starts with the goalie as he goes the team goes and if they feel confident he’ll come back in top form great. If he doesn’t do we blame it on an injury , he’s out of shape, or he’s on another planet pick your poison.
Lou Zamboni
Let’s face it…. VGK messed up on releasing Fluery.
Rumbling about too much in-fighting and the poor management moves got us in this mess..
There is no way the we should be watching other teams on ESPN now instead of the Golden Knights
Come on management… pull your head out of your golden asses
Hdbiker7851
Disappointed Foley as an exmilitary man doesn’t have the balls to fire both the splash brothers. The Lehner issue is just the tip of the iceberg. Like posted above Lehner is playing these two morons like a cat playes with a mouse. If anyone doesn’t believe this team has other issue let me know l have a bridge to nowhere for sale here in Alaska.
Tim
Hdbiker, again another true statement from a reasonable poster there all playing games but if there going to talk the talk they better know how to walk the walk and I’m not sure they can. I think right now this whole organization is in panic mode trying to divert blame anywhere they can.
Daryl
I’m not a fan of RL, but good for him on being able to play both if these guys…and the coach
THE hockey GOD
“People get over it.”
but not the , as Kevin Iole describes them, as the unsophisticated fan base.
Who see boogie men behind every bush.
I have yet to see any organization admit their so called faults, whether real or , in this case imaginary.
Yes I would like to hear from RL, and so far nothing SILENCE.
Daryl
People will get over it is the high and might my shit don’t stink kind of talk. He’s a moron if he thinks ppl will just get over it
Tim
THG, Well your wrong on this point which for you is an issue I get it but Chicago fessed up to the debacle they had in 2010 say goodby to Stan Bowman and Joel Quenneville. I got to ask you since your always shilling for the Knights do you have some sort of interest in the club or you just enjoy rose colored glasses.Someone who tries to stay neutral would talk about the good and bad of the organization but you always seem to fall on the side of management which is fine but a little confusing where there are chinks in there armor. I just find it interesting I’ve been on this site from the beginning same handle and I remember when you started your comments were off the charts then you turned into an interesting poster then you became political poster and now your a homer. I can say I’ve seen you all over the map in yhe last couple of year. Personally I’d like to see you stop with minny go back to legitimate posts be it what I think or not but have some substance. At 77 I feel I can give you some fatherly advice.
the Hockey God
TIM CHICAGO WAS 10,000000000000000x worse and they GOT CAUGHT with a very very bad situation that was breaking the LAW. Doesn’t even come close, boy, some people are out in space.
What universe do you live in ?
knights fan in minny
there you go again slappy insult the man TIM you must be proud of yourself boy
Tim
THG, I will except your apology when they hire Quenneville the man who will never coach again or at least I hope they hire him. That would be an excellent start to our retool put hope back on the table. When they fired Gallant they said he took us as far as he could . With respect to DeBoer I believe he has taken us as far as he can. Another year of his style of play and PP we’ll again be on the outside looking in.
THE hockey GOD
TIM
when NHL clears Quenneville, get back to me.
I give PDB half way into new , next season with a full healthy roster. Not the AHL wanna be(s) and walking wounded that populated the roster the last two months of season.
The lack of depth that comes with new franchise hurt this team bigly. Anyone who says otherwise has their head up their smelly keyster.
Bonne Covey
Debacle? The sexual assault charge. Call it what it is. Fess up? They were forced to due to a pending law suit. Blackhawks should have fired baby Bowman LONG ago, but. Daddy Bowman has a history with the team. Sooooo looking forward them picking themselves up and getting back to Cup contention.
THE hockey GOD
we should trade for binnington
THE hockey GOD
^^ not real Hockey God, but then again, not a bad comment at all ^^Unfortunately VGK can not afford the Blue’s goalie
knights fan in minny
bingy is a hot head
knights fan in minny
i remember a strained relationship between a goalie and a coach patrick roy and his coach who ever it was look how that turned out pretty good for roy how the coach was looked at by the fans i dont know but i bet it was not very good
the Hockey God
good point Minny,
Roy was not a very good coach in my opinion. He was laughable as I recall. And was run out of NHL rank of coaches, I think he’s coaching on Oak Island in Halifax somewhere for girls’ peewee hockey league.
JJ
RL needs to go.
knights fan in minny
i agree
Bobby
yup. A flaky goaltender screws up the whole mojo of the team
Galdom
Or never scoring on the power play and going 0-17 in the shoot up. That could screw with the mojo as well.
Steve
All the above
Frank
Team lost it’s identity this season…. In all three phases of the game… Goaltending, offense and defense. Some of it was injuries, some of it was poor player personnel moves and some of it was poorly conceived systems – particularly on power play. Hope they put it together next year.
Stephanie
You’ll never truly have success or change if the people at the top cannot admit mistakes of any kind and truly move forward. Omg Its not that tough.!
Galdom
Stephanie, truer words have never been spoken. Couldn’t agree more
Alex Shaw
Whether RL was a good goalie is not what we saw this year he seemed to allow four goals in more games making it always an uphill climb for the team. He is a big man but extremely slow moving left to right how many times did a goal happen after he moved to one side or the other and couldnt get back. Make bissett no q and Thompson no 2 get rid of 7 million per year for Rl
Richie-Rich
I had serious doubts about The Panda in preseason. By mid-January I was convinced that it was serious mistake. Panda posted an .870 save percentage between about 1 December and 15 January when he was supposedly healthy. He’s never averaged more than 45 games in any season during his career. The guy has courage to fight through his personal demons to be a successful NHL goaltender and he deserved to be treated better by his Coach late in the season.
The VGK will enter Season 6 with more questions than answers. The team is a complete mess overall and in CAP hell. Sure, they have a bunch of stars, but no identity, no chemistry and a huge challenge to fix the PP/PK. Add in the major question of goaltending and you get the idea. Winning a Cup in Season 6 is likely impossible due to the bad decisions made the past few years.
It will be interesting to see how they deal with the CAP, Reilly Smith, goaltending, Dadanov, Roy, Stone’s back, Janmark, Lehner, Brossoit, and Thompson just to name a few of the major questions heading into the offseason.
Does Smith & Roy end up on the NY Ranger roster? Could happen.
If I’m Foley – and yes I am not, but if I am – SOMEONE HAS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS MESS.
THE hockey GOD
RR
RL = walrus, not panda, or walanda , and wiggy biscuit. Get it right next time
ok ?
PS I am still waiting for RL side.
Note how the writer(s) of this article fail to fully state that RL called out Elliott Freakman and others when they FIRST falsely stated he was hurt. RL pulled down his twitter account so you can’t see him calling out the lying mob media cretins.
Daryl
That’s right, the media said RL was injures and would be out the ret of the season which you said wasn’t true and he would be back. He came back for a game before going out on IR. So where did the media lie?
THE hockey GOD
Yes, but there’s more to timeline than that!! RL debunked the following on his twitter account in mid March
Jesse Granger
@JesseGranger_
At this point all signs point to Robin Lehner’s latest injury being a significant one.
Iit’s very possible he misses the rest of the regular season.
11:55 AM · Mar 17, 2022·Twitter. Which the poster just repeated from another twitter poster Daily Faceoff’s Frank Seravalli said is related to a knee injury.
Also, Emily Kaplan of ESPN reported that RL would be out for “season ending knee surgery on April 22, which obviously didn’t happen because RL dressed in the game on April 24 against the sharks.
and now this, on his shoulder , not his knee ? ! He is going to have knee surgery next ??
Robin Lehner G, Vegas Golden Knights
rl
Robin Lehner underwent successful shoulder surgery Wednesday.
Lehner suffered the shoulder injury on Feb. 9 and tried to battle through the injury but finally had to call it a season. There is no timetable for his recovery at this time but one should be available shortly. He ended the season with a 23-17-2 record to go with a 2.83 GAA and a .907 save percentage. He should be better next season as well as the Golden Knights who missed the post-season for the first time in 2021-22.
Herby
I am much more concerned about the VGK / Fan relationship.
I gave up my season tickets 2 years ago and know quite a few people that will give up theirs now as well. Good for fans without a season ticket as resale prices will be lower but not good for the VGK.
Frank
Trading away key franchise type players that made the team successful alienates fans. No matter what some may say about said players.
the Hockey God
UPDATE
It’s May 11 , 2022, 4 31 pm
FO still intact
PDB still coach
Foley still managing owner
Joe Biden still the worst president in history of USA.
Vladimir Putin = Hitler.
status quo and holding for now
Galdom
Every once in a while you people lose focus on what the real problem is. I guess I’ll have to emphasize again with capital letters. Before I do I’ll give you a clue. It was the problem this year and the exact reason why their playoff run against Dallas and their playoff run against Montreal ended.
THEY CAN’T SCORE!!! THE POWER PLAY IS NON EXISTENT!!!
Don’t shoot the messenger but the fact is that a broken down injured Lehner provided the same exact save percentage as Marc-André Fleury provided this season playing for Chicago and Minnesota. Fluery did not get better playing for Minnesota. And in the playoffs Fleury is not stealing any games and is continuing to provide average to slightly below average goaltending. .906
save percentage. Fleury will not save Minnesota nor will he kill Minnesota with his mediocrity. Lehner did not kill Vegas this year or save them with his mediocrity.
One time, we could all do this together.
THEY CAN’T SCORE!!! THE POWER PLAY IS GARBAGE!!!
Lehner doesn’t have some kind of cancer or is a cancer that is making the team have a horrible power-play and terrible scoring at key points in the game. Lehner has nothing to do with them going 0-17 in the shoot out in the last week of the season.
Until they figure out a way to start scoring at key moments of the game or actually have something better than a horseshit power-play then they won’t go anywhere.
Daryl
You are right, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t an issue in the locker room. I’m not saying he is, but we don’t know either. It’s been said before by fans and broadcasters from other teams that he is a distraction
VGK Fan
Gladom,
Your are correct on many of your points but MAF played for an awful team this year in Chicago there defense was as bad as it gets. MAF was the glue in the locker room for VGK. I like RL but there is no doubt MAF had a better year Minny would not have traded a second for him and would not be starting him if they didn’t also see it.
Richie-Rich
All this talk about stats and comparing The Walrus to The Flower is complete nonsense. Fleury is a future HOF goaltender who has the 3rd most wins in NHL history. The Walrus has no pedigree, no legacy and should never have been offered the ridiculous contract that he got. Period. There is no debate about this. It was a huge mistake and one that the VGK will be paying for next season and beyond.
That’s it. I have nothing more to say about it.
Daryl
RR
There is so much more than just stats. People talk about Reavo, which I’m not a fan, but his stats are horrible. But he brings so much more to tgmhe team than just his stats. Stats dont make a player.
As for MAF making $7, yeah that’s a little high fir this point in his career. But at the same time RL making $5 is way to high as well. The difference is, MAF probably would have been satisfied making a little over $3m next season whereas we will still be paying RL 5
Galdom
Fluery will be riding the bench tonight.
In this results oriented business it is clear that Lehner underperformed this year. But it’s not like he was terrible. He literally had the same numbers with Vegas who was garbage this year as Fleury had with Minnesota.
If Talbot can steal a couple of games this will be yet another of several times in which Fleury has lost his starting gig.
Minnesota may have made a bad trade. They gave up a second and also had to trade away a young goalie (Kaapo Kahkonen) to make room for Fluery. If they lose in a first round in which Fleury was merely average to slightly below average then it’s a bad trade.
Daryl
You can’t really say that RL played with a garbage defense when they were practically the same team as last year but with Petra more comfortable
Galdom
Boys and girls……
Remember how Vegas lost to inferior teams in Montreal and Dallas because they couldn’t score on the power play.
The Florida Panthers, the Presidents trophy winning Florida Panthers are currently losing to Washington in game five, a team that is inferior to them, a team that had 22 less points than them because they have zero power-play goals so far in the series. Does that sound familiar?
Galdom
I appreciate that Pete DeBoer is actually owning some of his mistakes. I still don’t know if he’s the right guy for this team but he does seem like a better human and has more integrity than the members of the front office.
I don’t really want to bring up the past but I guess we all do it and it seems kind of pointless as Gallant and Fluery are about to have their seasons end in the next couple of days. But……. I don’t know if Gallant is this genius that some of you speak of him as being. His team doesn’t look especially great against the Penguins and did Gallant ever explain why he didn’t call a time out in game seven as San Jose scored four straight goals on the power play. Just a thought.
Richie-Rich
The NYR looked fantastic vs the Penguins tonight. They are still in this series down 2-3 and have another home game to try and push it to a game 7.
Daryl
NYR didn’t start looking so good until Crosby was taken out… that seemed to deflate the Pens and the Rangers came back
Richie-Rich
Crosby is the man that makes the Penguins waddle for sure!
I know you’re a PENS fan, but prior to VGK I was a Rangers fan. Would have been nice to see Gallant coaching the PENS instead, eh?
Reaves gave a very impassioned speech in that locker room. McIdiot doesn’t have a clue as to how much leadership, identity, chemistry and passion plays in the locker room. He’s wrecked the VGK for a while until they can rebuild. I’m afraid I am going to have to sell my season tickets at half price next year.
Daryl
Agreed
TS
Galdom, I watch coaches finding their teams in bad situations late in games, their players seemingly lost, and coaches STILL don’t call a timeout!! The SJ Playoff debacle was the absolute WORST. Coaches seem to shy away from the TO, like it’s a sign of weakness or something to call it! I just don’t get it….
Daryl
I think not calling a TO was the one major mistake Gallant made
Galdom
When Vegas lost to San Jose in game seven I think we would all agree that Vegas was the better team, had home ice advantage in game seven. Who outcoached who in that series? Did DeBoer out coach Gallant? Hmmmmmmm……
Richie-Rich
The idea that they could carry 12 million on the payroll was the first mistake. Lehner has never averaged more than 45 games in a season. He wasn’t worth $5 million and he certainly wasn’t worth a 5 year risk. That’s on the FO. A huge mistake.
In hindsight, I think we would all agree that the best goaltending situation would have been Fleury/Thompson. I thought so in preseason and was vocal about it.
Now, the VGK is in goaltender hell with two seriously injured and flawed goalies and a rookie with a ton of upside who needs mentoring. Paying $5 million to Lehner to mentor Thompson is ridiculous.
Paying Fleury say $3 to $3.5 million would be great, but I don’t see any scenario where he agrees to return to Vegas after the shitty way he was treated. No way. So, is there another aging and serviceable goaltender out there? If so, then what do you do with both Lehner and Brossoit. Lehner is likely to be on LTIR until February. It might be a bit easier to off load Brossoit, but still at a price.
McIdiot is the reason why this situation exists.
Don m
So if not tp start a riot we prob will see Brossiet being traded withbivhope LT and Lehner fighting for starting position..ifvyou keep all 3 and plan on sending LT TO hendy alot of upset fans it could be
Galdom
Logan Thompson deserves the job. It would be ridiculous if they kept all three goalies.
Richie-Rich
I think LT signed a pro contract, 3 years. He cannot be sent down on a two way contract. Brossoit is finished in Vegas.
Richie-Rich
This is what the VGK is missing!
https://twitter.com/TonyDasco/status/1524541413232312320?s=20&t=i4WkNpVu7R_279yNjqQOfw
sb
All of this neverending moaning and growning about ‘they shoulda keep MAF and let Lehner go’ crap. Fleury is a better goaltender then Lehner? Since when? Not this past season. Fleury’s regular season SA% is .908 and Lehner’s is .907. One one-thousandth of a percent makes Fleury the better goalie and justifies $2 million more in salary over Lehner? Nope. Both had near identical regular seasons and MGT saved $2 million by moving Fleury. Grown men idol worshipping Fleury …. sad.
THE hockey GOD
@ sb
correct SB, plus go back to 2017 roster , look at d men we had then. “idol worshippers” of keeping 2017 roster !! d men on roster would see that these same players today are shit, and some not even playing anymore. Such mob media midget minded mentality , no wonder Kevin Iole called some fans the most “unsophisticated” fan base in NHL.
Based upon this article the grape stomper, Foley, appears to have given the FO
a vote of confidence.
It’s Thursday may 12
and FO is still intact
PDB still coach
Foley still managing owner
Biden still worst president in history of USA
Putin is hitler.
enough said
Daryl
It’s funny how you quote Iole when his view supports yours but completely ignore his other views when they don’t. How did our scoring defenseman do this year?
Daryl
So, what you are saying is that MAF was better and you provided a stat to show that. Yes MAF cost more this season, but what will it cost VGK after this season for keeping RL? There’s a long term thought process that needs to go into these things and some of you can’t see past this season
jkr
Did you ever actually watch Fleury play for Chicago with their non-existent defense, limited offense, and incompetent management? He was literally hung out to dry on every play with little to no help, but, sure, just compare the statistics that have no relevance when compared to each other so that you can “prove” your inaccurate position and continue your vendetta.
Galdom
If anything is inaccurate please write a letter to the nhl.com website. Marc Andre Fleury’s save percentage actually got worse in Minnesota. In 16 games, regular season and playoffs combined his save percentage is .907, worse then the .908 that he had in Chicago. Is Minnesota leaving him out to dry. Please don’t shoot the messenger as I am merely quoting facts.
Daryl
One thing about those stats, which is why I say you can’t just use stats, is yes Minn hung him out to dry in the playoffs. When Minn was down a goal they went full offense and several times he was left out to dry late in games.
Galdom
SB, it is correct that Fluery at this point in time is no better then Lehner. The statistics clearly show that and especially his performance for Minnesota which has been merely average. It’s hard for fans to be objective. As a Lehner supporter I can clearly say that he is not the answer for this team especially with his injury issues but people can’t admit Fluery was barely average this season, Fluery is not the solution. Some idiots say Fleury “made” the playoffs. ROTFL He got traded to a playoff team!!! Why is it hard for people to admit things on a forum speaking to complete strangers? Clearly Lehner has not worked out this year and I’m not going to be stubborn about that but Fluery is old and at best average.
Lehner with multiple injuries to multiple parts of his body had the same save percentage as Fleury had this year in both Chicago and an elite Minnesota team. That’s not a statement in defense of Lehner, it’s simply a factual statement.
THE VGK CAN’T SCORE TIMELY GOALS. THE POWER PLAY SUCKS!!!
Richie-Rich
The point I have been trying to make is that, yes, Fleury was/is at the end of a great career at age 37. Comparing Lehner to Fleury over the same number of years and age 24 to 30 years old, Lehner only was able to average 45 starts – NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A 1A.
Lehner did not warrant $5 million for 5 years, period. The right contract offer would have been about $3.25 or 3.5 million for 2 but no more than 3 years for Robin. That would have given the organization time to evaluate. Instead, they rushed in for the shiny new toy without a lot of research. Lehner’s got a lot of problems in his game, plus he’s never been healthy enough to be a 1A starter in the NHL.
Now, the VGK finds itself with two injured goalies. Lehner’s likely not going to come back from surgery until mid-January at the earliest. That leaves the team with Brossoit and Thompson. Thompson obviously needs more mentoring and Brossoit isn’t that guy. The VGK needs a 1A/1B scenario, which means they now need to go out and find a veteran goalie.
Bottom line, this entire Lehner move has been a total fiasco for the team and the blame goes to KMGM.
Hdbiker7851
Sb – in all due respect to your post it wasn’t about saving $2 MILL it is about spending 5 mill for 5 yrs, that’s wasting $25 mill. Apparently math is not one of your strong suits. Now let’s review who is more affective Iin the locker room. Lehner never lasted with other teams for a reason, do l.know the exact reason no, but l know they didn’t keep him that’s a fact and speaks volumes. This has nothing to do with worship it does have a great deal to do with reality which many who post here have no idea what reality is. One is fact the other is dreaming or wishful thinking at best.
Richie-Rich
There is no statistic for locker room leadership. Period. Flower has it, Lehner doesn’t.
Period.
TS
Well, McPhee sure has human behavior figured out, right??? ” Get over it”…those are fighting words, NOT conciliatory words of encouragement! My son tells me that every time he screws up! I cry BULL.
THE hockey GOD
TS will RL get “over it” for being pulled ?
Seems like ghoulies get pulled all the time, if that is true (RL feeling disrespected) or just BS from likes of Elliott Freakman trying to shit stir the pot.
I’d like to hear from RL. I dont’ get the impression that RL is whiney little shit like MAF, complaining about not playing. I get impression that RL is a team player. MAF is not. MAF screwed the fans and franchise by stating that he was retiring, thereby lowering his trade value. MAF did NOT GET THE JOB DONE. He was somewhat good at beginning, then his star fell faster than a meteor entering the earth’s atmosphere. Good riddance.
Galdom
Agree with THG on this one. Fleury is not a team player, no way. However, Lehner isn’t going to work. Too banged up, too many injuries, but I don’t think they should pay a premium to move him. Moving someone at their lowest value is bad asset management. Get Lehner healthy and then move him if he is not their guy. Same with Pacioretty and Dadonov who will be on expiring contracts. Trade them at the trade deadline. This mindset changes if the team is good but my opinion is that they are not that good even when healthy.
Daryl
For someone who isn’t a tram player, can you name a single player or organization that has said a single negative thing about him, minus the VGK FO??
Daryl
You don’t see RL as a winning little shit??? What has he been doing all season? Crying about this or that and even on teams he’s never played for
Galdom
I don’t know if Lehner really says much of anything anymore. He shut down his Twitter account. I’m not going to pretend I know the guy anymore that I’m going to pretend I know Fleury. On the last goaltender interference podcast McKenna was talking about Lehner being a really good guy and working hard to get over his injuries to help out the team. I don’t know if that’s worth anything to anybody. I felt that Lehner was very supportive of Fleury when Fleury was the starter in last year‘s playoffs.
But when Lehner was the starter in the playoffs two years ago we had the tweet from Fluery’s agent. I thought that was wrong and I think Fleury is in control of his agent and hypothetically let’s say the agent did it without Fluery knowing which I don’t feel this to be the case Fleury did not condemn his agent for doing so so he agreed with it. And last year, the minute that Fluery was in trade rumours he declared that he was going to retire if traded. Then of course he does get traded and then doesn’t retire.
So that’s where I can surmise that Fleury deep down cares about Marc Andre Fleury more than he does the team.
However…………
Maybe 40% of the players are the same way, maybe 80% of them are. Maybe players should care about themselves more than they do the team. Does the VGK front office really care all that much about their players?
Knowing what I know now, if I’m Reilly Smith I’m not doing the team any favours by taking a hometown discount.
But………. If I was Fluery and I was angry at the coach or organization and felt like I was being backstabbed I would have addressed that in private and not let it be a distraction at the most crucial time of the year which is the NHL playoffs. I stand by that. What was an issue between Fleury and the coach and front office should not have been some thing that teammates should’ve had to answer questions about in the middle of a playoff run.
THE hockey GOD
Galdom you got that right !!
Daryl
With how this FO treats players I have no issue with anyone speaking out publicly. Is it different tha RL trash talking a coach he’s never played for before? We think RL was supportive of MAF b/c he never said anything publicly… how do we know MAF wasn’t supportive of RL. MAF can’t control what his agent says or does and to say he knew about it is pure speculation
Richie-Rich
So, although I think it is a mistake for a leader to retain the services of people that he’s lost confidence in, that is apparently exactly what Foley is going to do. He’s taken the “injury” excuse hook-line-and-sinker and is going forward into Season 6 with the same front office and coach intact.
Gut instincts like this one, where a leader has lost confidence is a huge red flag. Foley’s going to be more “hands on”. That’s the Owner saying that he doesn’t have the balls to fire them all. He’s hoping, against his own gut instinct, that he’s wrong about it all and that the Splash Brothers and The Clown will bring in the coveted Stanley Cup in the 6th year as was the goal.
Well, that’s not happening. The Splash Brothers destroyed the chemistry, identity and personality of this team. It’s hard enough to win a Stanley Cup. Without these team attributes – IMPOSSIBLE. And the blame goes to …….apparently no one ….yet.
It’s going to be clearly evident by mid-January 2023 as the VGK get ready to hold a massive yard sale. It would have been better to bring in new front office management and a new Head Coach before the start of Season 6 in order to set the ship back on course.
What Foley has done is a gamble. I guess it’s okay since it is Vegas. The day is coming when Foley will finally take the action that is required now. Wait for it. It’s coming for sure.
THE hockey GOD
RR i guess you missed the part where in year 1 Foley said he was going to go for it before he died.
Stop your whining, you are worse than MAF, you all knew what you were getting into ahead of time.
Obvious
The same Foley who told Fleury he would NEVER be traded and he would RETIRE a vegas knight?
The 2 faced foley who will say anything anyone wants to hear
The same 2 faced investment banker Foley who made a living stomping all over people and fleecing them???
The only one who believes or trusts Foley are dupes like you who constantly shoot their mouths off but know nothing and are led around like cattle
Galdom
Foley and the entire front office are complete liars. That’s obvious. It’s also obvious that Fleury was lying when he said he was going to retire if Vegas traded him. In fact he’s not even retiring after this season as he says he wants to play next season.
Fleury looks after Fluery and maybe that’s the way it should be because the VGK management does not give a shit about anybody.
Daryl
Was it really a lie? Might have been but at the same time, the FO publicly said MAF would retire in VGK then they shipped him out. Why not lie about it
Richie-Rich
On Goalie Interference the ratings were discussed (TV viewership) and it’s down 40% this year. Foley and the Front Office have lost a large percentage of its fan base. Season Ticket sales are down and it’s fairly well known that this organization cannot be trusted.
These are facts.
Things are not going to change any time soon. Bringing back McIdiot and The Clown is only going to delay the inevitable.
THE hockey GOD
RR I think it has more to do with 1) Raiders being other team in town and 2) the team didn’t make the playoffs.
The rest is your usual over the top conjecture.
THE hockey GOD
obvious ? When did I ever say I believe or trust Foley? If you read my posts I call him the grape stomper, and owner who doesn’t know anything about running a sports franchise !!!
YOU OWE GOD AN APOLOGY !!!
Daryl
Nobody cares about the Raiders…. when they left Oakland they became irrelevant
DarthMenace
Both DeBoer and Lehner are complete trash, they took a winning team and flushed it down the toilet. Fire them both, immediately.
Galdom
GOD. This a mere mortal speaking. It wasn’t me saying that you didn’t believe or trust Foley but I would like to apologize on behalf of the human race anyways as it was wrong for someone to say that you did as that was a lie.
Galdom
I hate that Vegas isn’t in this but good playoff games tonight. I’m hoping Tampa wins and brings it to game seven.
I have to assume Minnesota will turn to Cam Talbot tonight to try to stop St. Louis and bring that series to game 7. I agreed with their move to bring in Fleury as a rental but Talbot is the better guy and they surely will turn to him now I think.
I’m hoping that the Kings knock out Edmonton tonight.
knights fan in minny
no word yet who will start i would guess talbot gets the nod change it up
Galdom
I watched about 75% of that series. I wish I can watch every game but that’s the series I decided to focus on. Fluery has nearly been average to slightly below average. They have to go to Cam Talbot now. They need better than average goaltending to have a chance to come back in this series.
The Wild should have not waited this long to go to Talbot. Talbot is signed for next year and Fleury is not. They are creating their own controversy for next year. Good, I don’t want the VGK to be the only team with drama.
Daryl
MAF actually looked really good 5-on-5… he over played some on the PK which is what gurt him. He’s made some great even strength saves
Daryl
I don’t think Talbot is better than MAF but he was playing well and I’m surprised he didn’t start the playoffs. How many losses did MAF have for them?
Galdom
As per your request…………
Since the March 21 deadline when Fleury was acquired the regular season stats for Marc Andre Fleury and Cam Talbot are as follows.
Fleury
11 games played
9-2-0
2.74 GAA
.910 SV%
Talbot
11 games played
8-0-3
2.25 GAA
.927 SV%
Impressive that Minnesota only had two losses in regulation time in their last 22 games.
Daryl
And like I said, Talbot had been playing really good and I was surprised he didn’t start
Galdom
Breaking news………..
https://www.startribune.com/wild-goalie-change-nhl-playoffs-cam-talbot-masrc-andre-fleury-chip-sscoggins/600172483/
Galdom
It’s official. Cam Talbot will start for the Minnesota Wild tonight. He has a .923 career save percentage in the playoffs. I’d like to see him do well but I think St. Louis wraps it up tonight.
Galdom
Clearly when Minnesota traded a second round draft pick and had to trade away a young goalie (Kaapo Kahkonen) to make room for Marc Andre Fleury they envisioned that they would be getting a better performance than Fleury has provided so far in these playoffs.
Minnesota is now turning to the guy they should have started to begin with in Cam Talbot. The guy that brought them there and was there all season.
Can Marc Andre Fleury fans actually admit that Minnesota may have made a mistake here or are you too proud and stubborn.
Daryl is an MAF fan and he thought that Cam Talbot should have started game one of the playoffs. He is able to be objective.
Richie Rich, i’m not sure if Minnesota Wild fans could care less that Marc-André Fleury is the third winningest goalie in history, they needed him to play well and at least steal a game in the series. Now he has been relegated to the bench.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
Daryl
I will say this though… MAF actually played really well. I’ve watched every game of all the playoffs and to say MAF didn’t play well is not true. What’s hurt him has been the PK and over playing his position. He’s given up some late game goals when they were already down but which goalie doesn’t do that when the whole team is pressing.
I still would have started Talbot in the playoffs. Not because I think he is better than MAF but because Talbot has played really well
Galdom
If Larry is over playing his position then he is not on his game and not playing well. That’s like saying Lehner was playing well but his lateral movement was not up to snuff. And Fluery is paid to play 60 minutes, it’s not okay to let up late in the game. Bottom line is that they gave up a high draft pick and a young goalie to make room for Fleury and he did not do the job. They had to turn to another goalie in game six because they did not trust Fleury after his first five games.
Daryl
Again, it had nothing to do with trust. MAF over played his position because players were being left unattended. I’m not exactly sure what Minn was trying to do at times. Players got confused and didnt pick up their assignments.
Comparing that to RL being slow on side to side is not the same thing. MAF has played too far out of his crease often which for me has been his biggest issue. RL just has no instinct and he tries to ivercome that by playing out of position. MAF simply tries to do too much at times.
I do agree that no player should take a shift off no matter the score, but I’m getting used to players doing that after watching these “stars” on vgk team
Galdom
If Fluery is over playing his position then he is not on his game and not playing well. That’s like saying Lehner was playing well but his lateral movement was not up to snuff. And Fluery is paid to play 60 minutes, it’s not okay to let up late in the game. Bottom line is that they gave up a high draft pick and a young goalie to make room for Fleury and he did not do the job. Minnesota had to turn to another goalie in game six because they did not trust Fleury after his first five games.
Richie-Rich
This series isn’t over yet. I still think it was a good move to bring Fleury in. What is his record now in the playoffs 1-2? Still rooting for all of the departed VGK players, including Gallant.
Daryl
Talbot looked horrible… announcers were even talking about MAF possibly returning in the 3rd
Gary
Fleury has to have a defense that hangs back and doesn’t gamble on offense. That’s why he was successful his last year in Vegas. BUT the offense will suffer as it showed when VGK offense had gone down in production. He has been average at best this year and looks like he will cost the Wild to advance.
Daryl
So, if Talbot loses tonight its still MAF fault?
Galdom
The answer is yes if you don’t like MAF. Because people are biased. Just like everything this year is Lehner’s fault.
Daryl
Talbot did not look good at all tonight…. shame on MAF
Galdom
I agree Darryl. MAF’s fault. His mojo, (you know the mojo that everyone says that Lehner has that causes all the problems) LOL, that Mojo made Talbot play bad and made Minnesota only able to score one goal.
I wish I had these magical mojo powers that Lehner and Fleury have so I can go after my enemies.
Gary
No not at all but Talbot might be a little rusty after sitting for a couple of weeks…He was playing well then heard MAF split time at the end of the season
Daryl
He hasn’t sat for a couple weeks…. that’s a lame excuse.
Irene K.
The problem is that everyone seemingly looks at MAF as *just* a goalie. He’s not. In the VGK locker room he was (in my opinion) the de facto captain. The mature voice of reason. The actual leader. He played his ass off with his full heart when he won the Vezina. Which is why the Knights fell apart when he was stabbed in the back by the entire FO. Why neither MAF or the Knights have been able to find their footing ever since. With a GM who apparently doesn’t know what cap means chasing down every shiny toy, a dilettante owner, and a coach who thinks the Knights are the Sharts, it’s no wonder Vegas has become the laughingstock.
Change my mind. Prove me wrong.
Pistol Pete
MIN fails again to make it out the first round (sad) and Fleury was not much help (in fact he was pulled for game 6):
2 W/3 L
GAA = 3.04
SV% = .906
Daryl
And what was Talbot’s stats???
Pistol Pete
That’s a rhetorical question but I’ll take the bait lol. Not good.
Daryl
You basically called out MAF who won 2 games while implying he didn’t do anything to help his team win the last game while on the bench. His stats were better than Talbots
And both were better than RL
VGK fan
PP, Debeor,
The MAF troll !
Galdom
It’s 100% Fleury’s fault. His mediocre goaltending gave bad mojo to the rest of the team and caused Minnesota to not score enough in the last game.
In case you don’t know I’m being sarcastic but as stupid as that statement sounded keep in mind how stupid it sounds when I hear that Lehner is bad mojo and causing other problems on the team.
knights fan in minny
wild could not clear a rebound if there life depended on it
knights fan in minny
we are used to being done early here in minny the fans put on there wait till next year shirts
Galdom
BOTTOM LINE!!!!!
Anybody can put any spin on it that they wish. In the most important game of the season (a true must win) the Minnesota Wild did not trust putting MAF in net.
You guys are running out of excuses. Can’t blame this one on the Chicago Blackhawks defense.
Daryl
Sorry, but your comment isn’t accurate at all… and it shows your dislike for MAF. As we discussed before, Talbot was playing really well and probably should have started but they chose MAF. They decided to switch goalies in hopes of lighting a fire under their teams ass, which did not work. It had nothing to do with trust. Minn also went back to MAF to start the 3rd after that horrible 2nd period
Daryl
Sorry, almost went back to MAF
Obvious
Expecting Minnesota to beat the blues regardless of who is in goal is absurd.
5-1 and it’s the goalies fault? How dare that dam goalie only let those 4 lines only score 1 goal.
The Wild are a mediocre team regardless of who’s in net
No different than glory’s 3 ring circus. Stone Pac Eichel…. Can’t blame goalie for their shit performance…. Despite the fact Lehner is a psychotic whack job
Besides fleury brings more to a team than solid goaltending
Daryl
Minn has been aberage for years, even in previous seasons when some VGK fans were saying how good Minn was
Richie-Rich
Let’s be real. Fleury is 37 years old. His role in the NHL should be a 2A not a 1B. Unless Talbot was hurt, starting Fleury made no sense. I also totally misread this series. I thought that the Wild by far (on paper anyway) was the better team.
ARE YOU LISTENING MCIDIOT?
Paper statistics are meaningless! You go for heart, desire, chemistry, identity and personality! These things are all JUST AS IMPORTANT.
Fleury would thrive in a situation where he is mentoring a young outstanding goaltender. Period. His HOF days are behind him, there is no doubt about that. Bringing in Lehner wasn’t a bad idea, but paying him $5 million for 5 years was.
This post isn’t about Lehner hate or Fleury love. It is more about paying the right price and offering the right contract terms for a goaltender like Lehner. Foley, are you listening?
Well, now we are stuck with a young outstanding goaltender with a lot of upside potential with really no one to mentor him. Maybe bring Mike McKenna back!
Galdom
I don’t disagree. Fluery at this point in his career can help out in part of a tandem. He still looks and moves like he’s in good shape.
Daryl
Agreed… I think he would be a good $3m backup who plays a 3rd of the games