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DeBoer Explains Process Of Selecting Shootout Order

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Roy*, Theodore*, Marchessault, Dadonov, Patrick, Karlsson*, Stone*

Dadonov, Stephenson, Marchessault

Theodore*, Marchessault, Roy*

Roy, Dadonov, Marchessault*

Stephenson, Marchessault, Roy*, Dadonov*

Those are the order of shooters in the Golden Knights’ five shootouts this season. (*=Goal)

Vegas has scored on nine of their 20 attempts, which has them at 45%, the 5th best success rate in the NHL this season. In fact, only one other team (ANA) has at least nine shootout goals this year, and the Golden Knights have more successful shootout attempts than the Flyers, Hurricanes, Canadiens, Bruins, Islanders, Jets, and Senators combined.

This has led VGK to a 4-1 record in the tiebreaking skills competition, which clearly proves whatever process goes into selecting their shooters is working brilliantly.

Recently, appearing on The Press Box on ESPN 1100, Pete DeBoer dove into that process.

We have a whole analytic breakdown of shootouts and shootouts against particular goalies. I really try to not overthink those situations, we usually just go by the list. –DeBoer on The Press Box

There is one scenario in which he’ll deviate though.

We will move guys around on that list based on who is having a hot game. For example, we used Dadonov earlier in shootout before because he scored in the game. –DeBoer on The Press Box

But it’s not just the scoring that has been working for Vegas this year in shootout. Despite entering the season as statistically the worst shootout goalie in the history of the NHL, Robin Lehner has stopped 11 of the 16 attempts he’s faced. That’s just a .688 save percentage, which has him ranked 23rd in the NHL this season, but that’s a far cry from the almost laughably bad record he has had in the past.

One thing people don’t see is that he works on his game. Every year at the end of the season we identify areas for guys to work on and coming into Vegas one was breakaways and shootouts. It was never a serious strength but he works at it, he studies film, and he’s getting better and better. –DeBoer on The Press Box

Lehner has been in goal for three of Vegas’ four shootout wins and has risen his career percentage to .545 which has him out of the all-time cellar and into 114th of the 117 goalies to appear in at least 10 shootouts.

Shootout success has earned the Golden Knights four extra points in the standings which as it stands in the difference between being atop the Pacific Division and sitting in 3rd.

Analytics, practice, and film. That’s been VGK’s recipe, and it’s working almost perfectly.

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44 Comments

  1. Well, then there is a case to be made that the PP1 unit should be

    Roy
    Dadanov
    Stone
    Karlsson
    Theodore

    Let Theodore and Karlsson QB from the blue line. Put Dadanov and Roy on the wings and Stone near the crease.

  2. THE hockey GOD

    i for one think we should let gary lawless have a go on the shootout

  3. Justin

    Wow, great news about Lerner moving from the worst shootout goalie in history all the way up to #114 out of 117. Tells you a lot about his quickness. He did look real good in last several shootouts, the highlight being when he did one better than Vasilefsky. The stat does say a lot about his athleticism though, which makes it even more a mystery why the Mcmanagers chose him to improve the chances of winning a Stanley Cup….

    • Galdom

      Good point Justin. Being bad in the shootouts really hurts your chances in the playoffs where shootouts don’t even exist. I wish I had thought of that.

      • Justin

        I wasn’t suggesting his shootout record would hurt the team in the playoffs as they don’t do shootouts in the playoffs. I was questioning the analytical point that if a goalie is the worst in the NHL at shootouts, why is that? Is it because shootouts require a goalie to be quick? Perhaps to be able to read the play quickly and react? The contributing factors that cause one to be bad in shootouts certainly would be contributing factors that apply to other parts of his game. It’s not mystery that he’s quite bad at handling breakaways for instance, which are very similar to shootouts. Guess what, breakaways happen in the playoffs. As I recall, Cole Canfield got several breakaways last year in the Montreal series that were pretty much the same as a shootout. And surprise, surprise he scored easily on RL, and those breakaways had a lot to do with them winning the series.

        It’s a skill set, or lack there of, that should be considered when assessing a goalies abilities to carry a team to a cup win. I was making a point about skills analysis that seemed to go right over your head, sorry. You just were so quick to do the old gotcha because shootouts don’t happen in the playoffs you totally missed the point.

        It’s all good though, you just have a different opinion about RL’s abilities than I do. We’re all fans and want the team to get to the same place. Fingers crossed I’m totally wrong about him and the Mcmanagers have been right all along. Playoff time will tell.

        • Pistol Pete

          It seems Lehner’ effectiveness in shootouts and on breakaways is improving. That can be attributed to him and the coaches working on areas that need improvement which for most goaltenders are numerous even when they are top level.

        • Galdom

          https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/gotta-see-caufield-dances-breakaway-beats-fleury/

          YOU FUCKING PUTZ!!!

          Cole Caulfied’s breakaway goals in the playoffs were against Marc-André Fleury. You guys want me to not talk about MAF but it’s kind of hard when he’s getting blamed for things that he didn’t even do. Look at the link stupid.

        • Galdom

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bFU3n-MnzZs

          Surprise, surprise Montreal’s Cole Caufield scored on a breakaway on Robin Lehner you say??? Idiot!!!! I just posted a link where it was actually Marc Andre Fleury that Caulfield scored on on the breakaway. Well here’s another link of another breakaway goal by Montreal in the playoffs. This time it was Paul Byron on Marc Andre Fleury.

          I said I would never use words like idiot or insults on here but holy shit it was impossible for me to hold back on this one. And I was really trying to not talk about MAF anymore but if you’re going to blame Robin Lehner for doing something that Marc Andre Fleury actually did then how can I not call you out on that.

          • Justin

            Again you are missing the point Galdom, which seems to be an extremely regular occurrence with you. Not quite sure your reading comprehension or mental azccuity is all there at this point. I made the analytical point that the fact that Lehner is the worst goalie in the NHL at breakaways this is due to root causes in his abilities. You countered with shootouts don’t happen in the playoffs. I suggested similar occurrences to shootouts happen in the playoffs, like breakaways. If Canfield scored on a breakaway on MAF I stand corrected. The point was a broader one. Whether it was Canfield last year, or whoever has a breakaway this year, they happen in the playoffs and RL.is not great at countering them. The faults in his athleticism that hinder him in this area surely seep into other areas of his goaltending.

            Calling me a putz or an idiot doesn’t solve your inability to read or reason. As Gump’s mom said “stupid is as stupid does”, or in your case “says”. You’re inability to control your child-like emotions and latent rage are indicative of one who may be not only be quite limited mentallyt but emotionally immature as well. Going personal and name-calling as a means of countering an argument says a lot about your character. If you have trouble maintaining personal relationships or getting along well with others, or with basic mental cognition you may want to seek out some therapy. Hint hint, the problem lies in you, not the other people.

            I can see this is going to go nowhere with you so I won’t comment anymore, can’t talk reason with those of your ilk.

          • Galdom

            Thank you for correcting yourself in regards to Cole Caufield scoring on the breakaway against Marc-André Fleury. Facts are very important.

          • Galdom

            You can call me stupid although you spelt mentally mentallyz and you spelt acuity azzcuity and you spelt Caufield Canfield multiple times and I did get your point about your opinion on Lehner’s athletic ability. You based your opinion on Lehner‘s past poor shootout record and further supported how it played out by an inaccurate fact about Caufield scoring on him on a break away. I had to call you out on that to keep things factual.

            If Lehner’s past poor shootout record concerns you then I understand your point and you are entitled to your opinion. I hate the way MAF handles the puck like a hot potato at the most inopportune times and that always scared me and it actually played out in real time.

            It’s wrong to act childish and hurl insults which I took back but also wrong to post bullshit facts so again, I thank you for correcting yourself.

            In regards to you not posting anymore, I think you should continue to post. This forum is more of a Fluery loving, Lehner hating thing that I don’t really think I should be part of. And then there is the occasional racist things that people post which is a little uncomfortable.

            I like the articles by Ken but I’ve learned that commenting isn’t really enhancing my VGK experience anyways.

  4. Tim

    We can all guess where the ax is going to fall myself I’m so wishy washy I scare myself. I say yes WDadonov then I think he always hangs around the front of the net. Then I think Martinez and he’s such a warrior how do we trade him. When I think Reilly Smith I see intelligent player on the famous Misfit line. When I think Janmark but he’s in on every play scrapping. Then I think Patch he’s been hurt so much will he hold up but healthy what a line with Stone and Eichel. Now I’m out of guys with salary that would help our cap situation because the next guys are going nowhere. Karlsson, Marchy, Stone, Stephenson, Roy, Petro, McNabb, Theadore, Whitcloud, Eichel and everyone else contract is minimal so I’d hate to be management trying to figure this out. Amadio they just signed for two years, Patrick a @@@@heat King Kelly M. is not sending him anywhere. Howden young and looks like a keeper, I can see Hutton going but who else to get down to 23? Why don’t all you posters chime in with your thoughts on the subject. Please rational thoughts only none of the off the wall posts just to pull our chain.

    • Pistol Pete

      Think they have it figured out Tim.

    • Galdom

      My cap compliant lineup to start the playoffs. I will stay under $81.5 million however I think there may be some kind of injury that we could it be up to 84 million but for the purpose of this exercise I will stay at 81.5 million.

      FORWARDS

      Jack Eichel (10)
      Mark Stone (9.5)
      Max Pacioretty (7.0)
      William Karlsson (5.9)
      Riley Smith (5.0)
      Jonathan Marchessault (5.0)
      Chandler Stephenson (2.75)
      William Carrier (1.4)
      Nolan Patrick (1.2)
      Brett Howden (0.85)
      Nicolas Roy (0.75)
      Keegan Kolesar (0.725)
      Michael Amadio (0.7625)

      50.8375 million on forwards

      Alex Pietrangelo (8.8)
      Alec Martinez (5.25)
      Shea Theodore (5.2)
      Brayden McNabb (2.5)
      Nic Hague (0.792)
      Dylan Coughlan (0.763)
      Zac Whitecloud (0.725)

      24.03 million on defence

      GOALIES

      Robin Lehner (5.0)
      Laurent Brossoit (2.325)

      7.325 on goalies

      TOTAL CAP HIT IS 82.10 MILLION. 610,000 over the cap. This roster has 13 forwards 7 defence and 2 goalies. You only need to have 20 guys submitted before the playoffs but I have submitted 22 because I don’t want to expose Amadio or Coughlan on waivers but if it had to be done and the team was 100% healthy it can easily be done.

      This is a much easier exercise than I thought. It’s all about this year because I think next year they are fucked when Nicolas Roy and Nic Hague raises. I’m not moving pieces like Max Pacioretty until the off-season. Going in with the strongest roster. It is easier to trade Riley Smith and get more back for him in a trade but again it’s all about this year so I am moving Dadonov.

      Deletions from roster

      Evgeni Dadonov (traded)
      Mattais Janmark (traded)
      Ben Hutton (waivers)

      Michael Amadio or Dylan Coughlan could get placed on waivers if absolutely necessary although I don’t think it will be needed since team won’t be 100% healthy.

      All other players are waiver exempt so we don’t have to worry about Rondbjerg, Miromanov, etc….

      • Galdom

        So there you have it Tim. They probably only have to move Dadonov and Janmark but it’s possible if they have guys on LTIR they may only have to move one of them or maybe none at all. So what do I do with the roster that I kept, the cap compliant roster without Dadonov and Janmark. My first lineup is the simplistic one and the second lineup is the one that I would do which would be breaking up the misfit line.

        SIMPLISTIC

        Pacioretty- Eichel – Stone
        Marchessault – Karlsson – Smith
        Roy – Stephenson – Patrick
        Carrier – Howden – Kolesar

        McNabb – Pietrangelo
        Martinez- Theodore
        Hague – Whitecloud

        Extras
        Amadio
        Coughlan

        MY LINEUP

        Pacioretty – Eichel – Howden
        Marchessault – Stephenson – Stone
        Roy – Karlsson – Smith
        Carrier – Patrick – Kolesar

        same defence

        I wanted to put Kolesar on the top line with Eichel and Pacioretty to do all the dirty work along the boards digging out pucks but I think his lack of finish could be frustrating for Jack and Max so I put Howden there as he has better finish and he continues to get more confident. That’s my first line.

        I still want Stephenson in the top six. He has earned that. Stone and Marchessault played great together at the world championship and could have chemistry and maybe we will see it this All-Star weekend. That’s my second line.

        I actually love my third line. You can’t get much better defensively with Karlsson and Smith and then you have the Swiss Army knife in Nic Roy that can play centre or wing. I’m going to miss him when he’s gone.

        Carrier and Kolesar are fixtures on the fourth line and seem to play really well when they are not over utilized.

        There you go Tim. It was fun playing the game.

        It’s possible with so many good players being available at the deadline that Dadonov may not be moveable. If that’s the case then you trade Reilly Smith which would be unfortunate.

        Any thoughts? What do you think Ken? Kindly advise.

        • Galdom

          Tim, you wanted rational thoughts so I didn’t want to get into the nonsense of trading away Brossoit and having Thompson as the back up. Bad goaltending can fuck up all of the plans. In the event that Robin Lehner gets hurt or under performs i’m going to want the second option to be Brossoit who has had several seasons in the NHL, over 100 games of NHL experience and knowledge of opposing shooters. I can’t throw Logan Thompson to the wolves. However, trading Brossoit and promoting Logan Thompson sounds like an off-season move for next season.

        • Galdom
          I think your line up is Horrid…Kolesar on the first line?????? He should not be on the 1st line of the Silver Knights yet be on the Golden Knights at all! With all the talent we have waiting send him down ! I think you keep the stone line together put Eichel with Marchy and Smith,Karlsson to the third line Cut Kolesar completely…..
          Stone Stephenson Patches
          Marchy Eichel Smith
          Janmark Karlsson Howden
          Carrier Roy Amadio
          This is just my opinion

          • Galdom

            You might’ve read it too quickly. I actually put Kolesar on the fourth line. Your lineup is similar to mine. You also don’t have Dadonov. Did you do the math and make sure your lineup is cap compliant? I think that was the point of Tim‘s post was to make a lineup that was cap compliant. Kolesar makes the league minimum and you need some of those guys If you are inserting a $10 million player in Jack Eichel. If I was completely ignoring trying to get under the salary cap I would also keep Janmark

          • Galdom

            What about your defense. The entire point was to pick a lineup that was under 81.5 million. If you are picking Janmark over Kolesar then you have to make up that extra salary by moving a defenceman. Again, I think you missed the spirit of the exercise. I can make my lineup better if I ignore the salary cap

          • Galdom
            You are correct I did read past it…so with that said I would trade Janmark and put in Leschychyn and or Rondbjerg in and still cut Kolesar….much better players that are fast ,hit and can score …stick with the defense and goalies you chose and I would definitely ride Lehner to the end…so I guess with the exception of Kolesar we are pretty much on the same page..this should get me compliant

          • Galdom

            Looks good

  5. Pistol Pete

    Looks like we are stuck with ESPN+ for nearly all games rescheduled during the Olympic break including three of the four VGK games. Thanks to ESPN+ VGK fans may miss Eichel’s debut. A middle finger to ESPN.

  6. You can watch every game on nhl66.ir

  7. Galdom

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bFU3n-MnzZs

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YunNCo0Z6t4

    JUSTIN, YOU SAID THAT LEHNER’S LACK OF ATHLETICISM AND BAD SHOOTOUT SKILLS COST THE TEAM WHEN HE ALLOWED BREAKAWAY GOALS TO MONTREAL INCLUDING ONE BY COLE CAUFIELD. BUT IT WAS ACTUALLY FLUERY IN NET FOR THOSE BREAKAWAY GOALS. THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINT ABOUT THE UNFAIR TREATMENT OF ROBIN LEHNER. BLAMING HIM FOR THINGS THAT HE WASN’T EVEN A PATT OF.

    I can respect the wishes of people on here to not beat a dead horse and bring up Marc Andre Fleury but I can’t hold back when this idiocy happens. I can’t listen to someone blame Lehner for something that he didn’t even do. Holy Shit!!! This dislike and blaming Lehner for stuff from this fan base is a sickness that some of you don’t even know you have as evidenced buy those posts.

  8. Galdom

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YunNCo0Z6t4

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bFU3n-MnzZs

    JUSTIN, YOU SAID THAT LEHNER’S LACK OF ATHLETICISM AND BAD SHOOTOUT SKILLS COST THE TEAM WHEN HE ALLOWED BREAKAWAY GOALS TO MONTREAL INCLUDING ONE BY COLE CAUFIELD. BUT IT WAS ACTUALLY FLUERY IN NET FOR THOSE BREAKAWAY GOALS. THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINT ABOUT THE UNFAIR TREATMENT OF ROBIN LEHNER. BLAMING HIM FOR THINGS THAT HE WASN’T EVEN A PATT OF.

    I can respect the wishes of people on here to not beat a dead horse and bring up Marc Andre Fleury but I can’t hold back when this idiocy happens. I can’t listen to someone blame Lehner for something that he didn’t even do. Holy Shit!!! This dislike and blaming Lehner for stuff from this fan base is a sickness that some of you don’t even know you have as evidenced buy those posts.

    CLICK ABOVE LINKS FOR WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

    • Justin

      Gallon you are just incredible and are actually starting to make me laugh. Your moronic gotchas are actually just getting entertaining. Your first gotcha that shootouts don’t happen in the playoff, missing the point totally showed your utter lack of analytical ability and emotional immaturity.

      Your second gotcha that Canfield didn’t score a breakaway on Lehner, again totally missing the point that skills needed to stop shootout goals may be needed in other areas of goaltending was your moment of utter triumph. So I just looked it up and sure enough Lehner gave up a breakaway to Canfield, beat him easily high glove like so many do. It was oddly close to a shootout situation, haha proving the broader point that you will totally miss once again.

      Your best, most entertaining gotcha though has to be calling out my spelling,. I never check my spelling as I figure it’s not that critical in conveying a point, so I frankly just am not paying attention. But you totally focused on spelling to pull off another gotcha moment of triumph. The problem for you is you called out my spelling errors and state that I SPELT words wrong multiple times. LOLOLOL you just kill me. Only an utter moron of your proportion could call out someone’s spelling and misspell to do it. Your obtuse lack of awareness is epic. I also love how you say you won’t post anymore and then jump on and do like 5 more posts in succession. You just can’t help yourself as you clearly have the emotional maturity of a 3’rd grader.

      In fact I’m starting to feel bad because I’m getting pretty convinced at this point that you are likely a 14 year old D-student in junior high that’s likely to be held back yet again.

      So I’ll just leave this alone. If you really are a 14 year old D- student I’m sorry for responding to you. If you’re an adult, wow you honestly need help.

  9. Galdom

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/fleurys-meltdown-an-ugly-familiar-sight/

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aJmhM0pvpOo

    Tomorrow I turn over a new leaf and once again try not to talk about Marc Andre Fleury since he no longer plays on this team. UNLESS……. Somebody says something really stupid like blaming something on Lehner that Fleury was actually responsible for. I’ve pasted another couple of links above. One is where the pattern of Marc Andre Fleury mishandling pucks began which was in the world juniors when he cost team Canada a gold medal by making a huge mistake in the final minute. As a Canadian this was particularly painful. And the other link is basically how he was just terrible at times for Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Again these are actual real life events that really happened not made up ones like Justin stated where Cole Caufield scored on a breakaway on Robin Lehner.

    It’s funny how on an off day before the All-Star break and Robin Lehner coming off a fantastic week for no apparent reason Justin just decides to make up a story about Robin Lehner that didn’t even happen.

    And I’m the bad one on here for talking about MAF. At least my posts are factual.

    Again, tomorrow I will turn over a new leaf and not bring up MAF unless someone posts something that is not factual about Robin Lehner.

  10. Galdom

    Once you hit send and you post something you can’t take it back but I can repost and take something back so I apologize for using the words putz and idiot. I am better than that. But it’s clear that there is a misguided love for Marc Andre Fleury and a hatred for Lehner when fans are posting unfactual information like saying Cole Caufield scored on a breakaway on Robin Lehner.

    I’m better off not posting or even reading comments anymore so I am done with that. I’ll just continue to read the articles and thanks Ken for providing that. I’m hoping that we all want the same thing, for the Golden Knights to win even if the redheaded stepchild Robin Lehner is in net.

    Go Knights Go!

    • OK by me Galdom, you put that basher in their place by doing the DD they didn’t. Use the f word anytime you want…in your case you save it for when it’s deserved. Notice no response from the basher, because they made a fool of themselves. Keep up the good work!

  11. Galdom

    Can you imagine being Robin Lehner and getting blamed for goals that he wasn’t even in net for? That is just awful. I have serious concerns about this fan base ostracizing their player at the most important position. Lehner still hasn’t tweeted since before Christmas and I hope it remains that way. Shut out the noise and just do your thing Panda. Some may not like my posts but at least they are based on factual information not fantasy. And you are right Pistol Pete, the basher will remain silent. It’s much easier to bash than to admit your own faults.

  12. Pistol Pete

    How doesn’t think Eichel will be first on the shootout pecking order? And one for Justin when he blows by Theodore to beat Fleury. I think that may have been Gallant’s final game.

    https://vegashockeynow.com/2022/01/26/jack-eichel-highlights-to-get-you-excited-for-his-vegas-golden-knights-debut/

    • Pistol Pete

      “Who” not “How” lol. Galdom you’re right this board needs an edit feature. Also don’t like putting in the email for each post or is there a way around that?

    • Galdom

      Wow Pistol Pete. that is a beautiful goal by Eichel.

  13. It is rather unfortunate this site is often more about picking fly shit out of pepper than discussing actual hockey events concerning the Knight at this moment. There is zero value in posting back and forth you said, l said, can’t read etc. That kind of behavior is what children do so unless you are children think about that. How good or bad the team, all players the coaches were in the past does nothing to address the present. If a player , coach or whoever is stinking up the place call him out on it and go forward. While we are all watching the same game and know anything about the sport we all recognize good and poor performance. That said some prefer looking thru rose scoref glasses and others have a more critical eye. One is no less or more a fan than the other except when it comes to posting and conducting ones self like a child and emotion gets in the way of common.sense. hope they continue to win next week. If the A team shows up the percentage increase two fold.

  14. Galdom

    I actually posted everything at the very same time and for some reason the messages were “awaiting moderation” and delayed so it looks like I sent additional ones a day later.
    I stopped reading your message at Canfield. For the love of God, please stop saying Canfield. IT’S CAUFIELD WITH A U NOT AN N. How hard is that?

    CAUFIELD.

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