The moment the Golden Knights inked the mega-deal with Alex Pietrangelo the identity of the defense changed. Where VGK had previously been seen as a balanced group, Pietrangelo’s addition turned them into a collection of six defined by the two superstars. With Shea Theodore’s emergence the year prior and Pietrangelo captaining the Stanley Cup winner the year before, Vegas’ pair could be put up against any other defensive duo in the league.
Then the season came.
Theodore started off red hot amassing 14 points in his first 15 games while Pietrangelo took some time to settle in. Over the course of the year both missed time but throughout the balance of the regular season, it was clear that Theodore was the better performer. In fact, he earned himself 109 Norris votes, good for 6th place, where Pietrangelo did not receive a single vote.
Then the postseason came. And it flipped.
Pietrangelo was the best player in a Golden Knights jersey for the entire 19 game run while Theodore faded to the background going pointless in 10 of the first 12 and 13 of 19 playoff games. Pietrangelo racked up four goals including a stretch where he scored three of the team’s four total goals while Theodore lit the lamp just once in 439 minutes.
Due to the shortened season and the nature of the playoffs, the sample sizes are both fairly small. However, it seems like much more than a coincidence that when Theodore was on Pietrangelo was not, and vise versa.
I wanted to take a simple statistical approach to looking at this odd phenomenon before potentially diving deeper into it tactically and/or systematically. So, I went back over the 38 regular season games and 19 playoff games that featured both Pietrangelo and Theodore. I was focused on the two simplest stats, goals and points.
Over the course of the two seasons, before the pair played together, Theodore had scored 25 goals and 83 points in 150 regular season games. He ramped it up scoring nine times and adding 27 points in 27 playoff games. Pietrangelo’s scoring numbers are similar. In 141 regular season games he scored 29 goals and 93 points while he added four goals and 25 points in 35 playoff appearances.
Goals Per Game
Theodore – .19
.17 regular season
.33 playoffs
Pietrangelo – .19
.21 regular season
.11 playoffs
Points Per Game
Theodore – .62
.55 regular season
1.0 playoffs
Pietrangelo – .67
.66 regular season
.71 playoffs
The idea of acquiring Pietrangelo was to add his blue line production to the already excellent production Theodore had been generating. In theory, rather than having one defenseman scoring every fourth or fifth game, Vegas would have two. They’d also have two guys generating more than a half-point per game meaning there should rarely ever be a night where neither are on the board.
It didn’t pan out that way though. Here are their numbers this season in the 38 regular season games and 19 playoff games both were active,
Goals Per Game
Theodore – .12
.16 regular season
.05 playoffs
Pietrangelo – .19
.18 regular season
.21 playoffs
Points Per Game
Theodore – .71
.71 regular season
.53 playoffs
Pietrangelo – .61
.61 regular season
.63 playoffs
and the differences when they are on the same team from the two seasons prior.
Goals Per Game
Theodore – Down .07
Down .01 regular season
Down .28 playoffs
Pietrangelo – Even
Down .03 regular season
Up .10 playoffs
Points Per Game
Theodore – Up .09
Up .16 regular season
Down .47 playoffs
Pietrangelo – Down .06
Down .05 regular season
Down .08 playoffs
It’s instantly troubling how many downs there are when you consider the success the Golden Knights had both in the regular and postseasons. But beyond that there’s a Newton’s Law situation going on wherever there are ups. Anywhere Theodore is up, Pietrangelo is down and anywhere Theodore is down Pietrangelo is either also down or up. There is not a single “season” in which both players saw their production rise compared to their last two years.
That brings me to individual games. In 57 games together (38 RS + 19 Playoffs), there was just one time in which both Pietrangelo and Theodore scored a goal in the same game. They both recorded a point in the same game in 12 of the 57 while neither scored a goal in 42 and neither recorded a point in 15.
Goals per game and points per game don’t quite match up here because it’s possible to score more than once in a game. So, we have to adjust the numbers a bit to take that into account. Here the adjusted numbers for how many unique games each scored a goal or registered a point in the two seasons before they became teammates.
Games with a goal
Theodore – 17% overall
23 of 150 regular season games (15%)
7 of 27 playoff games (26%)
Pietrangelo – 17% overall
26 of 141 regular season games (18%)
4 of 35 playoff games (11%)
Games with a point
Theodore – 47% overall
65 of 150 regular season games (43%)
19 of 27 playoff games (70%)
Pietrangelo – 46% overall
61 of 141 regular season games (43%)
20 of 35 playoff games (57%)
Probabilities are tricky, so I won’t get into the complete mathematics behind this, but when you have one outcome expected to happen 17% of the time (Theodore goals) and another also expected to happen 17% of the time (Pietrangelo goals), those two outcomes should come up in the same game about 3% of the time. In 57 games, that would mean it should happen about two times. It only happened once. But, small sample size, so relax.
As for points, before they were together it was expected that Theodore would score a point in 47% of games while Pietrangelo would register one in 46%. The overlap of those two says 22% of the time they’ll both achieve the outcome. For the Golden Knights, they saw it happen 12 times in 57 games or 21% of the time, pretty much exactly as expected. The postseason is a bit troubling as the expected outcome for both to score a point was 57% and it happened just nine times in 19 games or 47%.
The probability of neither scoring is similar. It should happen 29% of the time. For the Golden Knights, it happened 26% of the 57 games. In the playoffs, it was supposed to happen 13% of the time and it actually happened in six of 19 or 32%. The Golden Knights unsurprisingly struggled in those playoff games going 2-4 including the disastrous Game 5 at home against the Canadiens.
Obviously, hockey is so much more complicated than statistical probabilities, but many of the numbers match the eye test. When Theodore was good, Pietrangelo wasn’t his normal self. When Pietrangelo was great, Theodore wasn’t.
This is far from the end of this narrative for me as I believe there are literally hundreds of ways to approach this, but to me, the groundwork is certainly laid for concern, especially considering the postseason performances.
Can two superstar defensemen coexist to both play to their expected levels at the same time? One shortened, wacky, COVID-effected season says maybe, maybe not. The Golden Knights need the answer to be a clear yes if they intend on winning the Stanley Cup in the much more normal upcoming 2021-22 season.
Will Riley
Shea Theodore my fav VGK player and dark horse pick to win the Norris Trophy.
THE hockey GOD
meanwhile in real world blundering Biden is building the Taliban back better as blood is directly on his hands , and all the idiots who voted for this POS. Our citizens , brothers/sisters in military are getting slaughtered and his party leadership is deathly silent on this incompetent, inept piece of human shit.
We deserve better than this AHoles who stole the election. I remember a few short months ago when terrorists heads are rolling in the street.
Richard Santomauro
I spent 30 years in the military. We should have been out of Afghanistan in 2002, BUT – right now I would send the troops back in to the areas up north BIGLY. This time, no nation building at all. This time, everything goes (and I do mean everything up to and including chemical and tactical nukes on the cave systems). It’s time that these neanderthal 8th century lunatics were forever erased from planet earth.
But, it won’t happen. Biden is and always had been the Joke played on America. He’s a clown, inept and worse – corrupt.
Tyler Durden
“Bigly”, right there your repeating a trump word, that alone kills your credibility
Richard Santomauro
You talk of credibility? The Dolt-In-Chief has never had any credibility. He’s been a clown his entire 5 plus decades in Washington DC. But being a clown and a dolt is just the foundation of Joe Biden. Topping it off he is also a disgusting human being who wound up with his babysitter. Even worse is his entire corrupt family.
Trump might be an a-hole, but he’s a real leader. I can only hope that the truth about this past election comes out. It’s sickening that this Dolt has been forced upon the world. What a laughing stock.
Tyler Durden
You said trump is a real leader. Which is it Dick?
And now you drop Marxist, like you know what that means.
You idiots always drop Marxist, communist, socialist, fascist, but it just shows your ignorance and yet you call someone else delusional brainwashed?
It’s gonna take a long time to rid this country of you 42% of the deplorable idiots
Daryl
@Tyler
You do realize that a lot of these organizations, like BLM calls themselves Marxist? You have people like Sanders who is a socialists. Even your beloved CNN users those terms to describe some of the people oe organizations we’ve mentioned on here
Pistol Pete
There is plenty of blame to go around for the 20 year Afghanistan debacle. Yes the Biden administration did not anticipate the instant decline of the Afghan government and sufficiently engineer the withdrawal of Americans and Afghans, however the Trump administration negotiated a surrender deal directly with the Taliban, bypassing the Afghan government and guaranteeing the release of 5000 Taliban/other prisoners. Not a good move; worse in my opinion than the current crisis.
With today’s evolving surveillance and weapon technologies the best way to fight terrorism is covertly. The Biden team gets high marks for hitting the ISIS-K operatives involved in the airport bombings. Expect ongoing counter terrorism assets activity in Afghanistan by the U.S. and NATO allies.
Daryl
@Pistol
You say what Trump did was worse simply because you are opposite his political views. Nothing Trump, Bush, or Obama did is as bad as what Biden has done. He also was made to look like an even bigger fool when he said we couldn’t have predicted this when in fact military experts have already come out and said they told Biden this would happen.
As far as prisoners being released, some Obama’s released terrorists are back on the top front line of what is going on now. They have identified several former prisoners that Obama let out
Richard Santomauro
Trump’s negotiated a withdrawal plan with the Afghanistan government and Taliban. The Taliban was NOT supposed to be advancing and taking over portions of the country. Biden was well aware that Taliban had been violating that deal for months, BUT he cut and ran anyway.
Biden gets zero credit and I feel the same way our UK friends feel about it. Biden should be court martialed not impeached. Maybe both. The military leaders who went along with this should all be held accountable as well.
The way this was handled was not Trump’s plan and everything the Taliban has done violated that plan.
Sorry, but Biden screwed up. He’s as weak as Obama was when he dared Assad to cross that red line, or when Hillary left those folks in Benghazi to be murdered.
But, let me say this. The Afghanistan disaster isn’t just one that should be owned by Democrats. Republicans too should share the blame. Twenty years? Really? Why? What was the mission? What was the threat? We should have pulled out of Afghanistan in 2002 or by 2003 at the latest. The ONLY reason we stayed there was to feed the military industrial complex, and for politicians and others to grift off the corruption of contracts there. It’s a known fact that politicians like Biden, his family, and Republicans too all enriched themselves on these “wars”.
Just wanted to put this into the larger context that it truly deserves.
Trump? I wish he could have done a lot more to get us out of Afghanistan during his presidency. He does deserve that criticism. I mean look, General Mattis fought Trump tooth and nail over withdrawing from Syria and Afghanistan. At least he had the courage to push forward with a plan to get it done. It’s too bad Biden totally fumbled that football on the 5 yard line.
Richard Santomauro
Like all intolerants, you foam at the mouth when faced with opposing ideas. Take your foaming back to twitter land where the Taliban and Iranian leaders are allowed to “tweet” along with ANTIFA and other leftist groups. Goes to prove just how intolerant and exhausting liberals are. Bye bye.
Daryl
I bet Tyler has never wishy time around anyone from the military let alone been in the military himself. He sounds like a spoiled millinials who has no respect for what our military has done for this country. People like him are the reason this country is screwed
Daryl
+spent* time around….
Pistol Pete
Damn man, did not realize how conservative you are. You know, whatever happened to moderation, just the understanding that there is something between right wing extremism (as in the election was stolen where the extermist knows it was not but are in an anti-left parade) and the “far left”? In the ever changing world the best way to be is moderately progressive to navigate the challenges and design solutions vs. never changing.
Richard Santomauro
Moderation? Something between far left and right? What is that exactly? Sounds like confusion to me.
What you have on the right is hard evidence that laws were broken and the constitution not adhered to in the case of the Presidential election. This is not conjecture or a right wing extremist view. It’s fact. Governors, Secretaries of State, and in some cases like PA even the courts themselves deviated from state election law. The courts did nothing, not because there wasn’t a case, but rather because it was the State Legislative bodies who had standing in those cases where election laws were violated. And, this is only the very surface of the mountains of evidence of fraud that occurred in the 2020 election.
On the far left, you have those who listen to the co-opted main stream media outlets (MSNBC and CNN being the two worst). People tune in and are told that the 2020 election was the most free and fair in US history. If you hated Trump that is exactly what you wanted to hear.
Then there is the matter of statistical and historical evidence all of which indicate that there is no way Joe Biden received 81 million votes. In the state of PA you have hundreds of thousands more ballots counted than were cast. In GA you have video evidence of that doors were closed, observers sent home and fraudsters pushing hundreds of thousands of ballots through 4 machines starting around midnight on November 3rd.
It find it rather perplexing that anyone would say that being moderate is the “way to be”. No, the way to be is actually to think logically and not trust either party. I don’t. I have been a registered independent voter, not affiliated with any party, since 2007. Trump’s not a far right extremist, nor is he a Constitutional Conservative. Trump’s a big government, big spending populist. He’s no Republican just like Bernie Sanders and AOC isn’t a Democrat.
What I tell people is to vote, not based on party, but rather on what your own personal values are. If you’re a communist, by all means vote Democrat. If you are a corporate globalist then by-all-means vote for someone like Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush isn’t a Republican. He’s a Corporate Globalist. His version of the world is never ending wars and regime change across the globe, open borders for cheap labor to satisfy his corporate masters.
No, sorry. I don’t think like a far right wing extremist, nor do I think like a moderate or a left winger. I think for myself. I look at the complex issues that face the world and I come to my own conclusions by reading and researching, and through my decades of world experience.
I don’t label people as far left, right wing or moderate. People either have it right or wrong in my mind based on my own research and conclusions. If you’re a political team player and just parroting what you hear from talking heads then you are not any of those things. You’re not far left, right or a moderate. When you do that you are no more than a lemming for whichever talking head(s) you follow.
Richard Santomauro
By the way, I am not a conservative, not a Republican. I am a Constitutional Libertarian (not affiliated with any “party” at all). I use the term libertarian because I believe in liberty and the rights of individuals and states to be free from federal government tyranny. Yeah, I said tyranny. What we are experiencing today between the two power brokers (Democrats and Republicans) isn’t much difference than what the colonies went through under King George and British tyranny. We’re getting closer and closer to being governed like the Chinese people. The spying on us and the trampling of our rights is right there in plain sight for everyone to see.
knights fan in minny
joe blunder never had any credibility only soiled depends
Hdbiker7851
Thg – wonders never cease we agree again. When l think about all the people who sacrificed their lives for the freedom these morons just take for granted it’s enough to make you sick. The american public who put these jokers in power to govern over them should be ashamed of themselves.
THE hockey GOD
Matt Couch
@RealMattCouch
·
3h
Glenn Beck is rescuing Americans and on the ground in Afghanistan with his crew while Joe Biden is calling lids… So far 5200 have been rescued and flown out of the country thanks to Beck and his teams.
Which is more than what blundering Biden has done , to date.
THE hockey GOD
KenTimmerman
@KenTimmerman
·
15h
BREAKING: Glenn Beck’s Nazarene fund has gotten 5100 Afghan Christians out of Kabul. The biggest obstacle to his efforts has been “the State department and the White House… what our government is doing is out and out evil.
Richard Santomauro
In the past two nights, veteran contractor special forces went into the city and brought back 650 people to the airport. Biden is too afraid to send our troops out to save Americans and allies.
Shame, Disgrace, Weak, Inept, truly a dolt.
Pistol Pete
It was time to withdraw and withdraw we did. The Biden team did OK handing the situation. Yes there was an error made in terms anticipating the pace of the Taliban takeover, but we and the NATO allies successfully scrambled to get something like 250K people out in a short period of time. I suppose you downgrade the successful attack against the ISIS-K bombers like you find a way to remove credit for the Obama administration’s elimination of Bin Laden? There is not much point in continuing this discussion perhaps because you have your mind made up on Biden as I do on Trump? It’s beyond me how anyone can deny that Biden at the very least is more diligent and presidential than Trump. In my opinion Trump and certain of his cronies conspired to overturn a legitimate election. There was real concern in the Pentagon of an impending coup attempt. Hopefully the semi bipartisan investigation into Jan. 6 will reveal the conspiracy through the email and texting records. I just can’t believe smart people actually believe the election fraud narrative when the courts threw all the cases out in a undisputed bipartisan fashion. When people fall in line behind a potential dictator, succumbing to demagoguery, that is what happens. Dictators can be extremely popular with the populace. For the most part, people who claim election fraud are smart enough to know it did not happen. They just can’t support a Democratic president and will resort to anything to perpetuate the opposition.
Daryl
@Pete,
Are you saying you don’t believe there was in election fraud at all? I’m curious… Even Democrats have admitted there is election fraud, they just claim it isn’t as bad as Rep say it is and they claim it wouldn’t change any election. I honestly don’t know if it would or not. But my issue is, if both sides agree there is some election fraud, then what is wrong with Voter ID laws? Please explain how those laws hinder minorities.
As for Biden, he stated several times our Troops will remain until every American has been evacuated. He’s now saying that isn’t going to happen. So now what? What are we doing about those Americans and the others he promised to get out?
I can credit Biden for his atta k on IS, but let’s be honest, would any President not have done the same? Liberals are supporting Biden with how he handled this but leaders from other countries, leaders who despises Trump, have said what a horrible job Biden has done. So you can say it’s Trump supporters when there are so many anti-Trump people making the same claims. There are even Democrats who have spoken out against how Biden handled this
knights fan in minny
well said THG
Julie
On this, we definitely agree. The way it’s going with this and the mis-announced FDA approval, hockey is a welcome distraction.
THE hockey GOD
right on J, “For FDA approval a vaccine must be >50% efficacious and should last at least 12 months. Pfizer is <40% and requires an injection every 6 months. This by definition does not meet FDA approval." That is too complex for libtards like Tyler to wrap their tiny brains around.
FDA also bypassed clinical trials.
Julie
On top of that, the letter that the FDA put out granting approval was approval for BioNtech’s Corminaty vaccine – which the FDA says is the same as Pfizer’s vaccine “without distinction”. The Pfizer vaccine approval is being extended under EUA. This extends Pfizer’s liability protection. So you still can’t sue Pfizer for any adverse effects of getting the shot. So, they approved another vaccine which they say is the same, but in limited supply and clinical trials won’t finish until April 2025 – but kept Pfizer vaccine extended in EUA because they have more of it but don’t want to get sued. The FDA commissioner regulating Pfizer just joined Pfizer’s board of directors. So if you get a shot now, make sure it’s Corminaty so you can sue if something goes wrong. Like the VAERS report shows is wrong now with these “vaccines”.
On a hockey note, I am ready for the season to start already.
Richard Santomauro
My wife and I both took the vaccines back in March. No side effects, no issues. But, that was our CHOICE. It was our informed decision to do so based on the risks. Most importantly, choosing to take a vaccine or to submit to any medical treatment is a CHOICE guaranteed to all Americans by the Constitution. That freedom can only be circumvented on a case by case basis through due process (court action) – period.
There is little risk to healthy individuals under the age of 60 from COVID-19. The risk is even less to children.
Sadly, we are now being told that the vaccine isn’t effective after months of being told that we’d be able to be free from wearing masks after being vaccinated. Statistics are showing that 25% of those vaccinated are contracting COVID-19. The United States has nearly destroyed its economy over a virus that most people will recover from (>99%!).
Also, Joe Biden should be thanking Donald Trump for the vaccination he received. It was Donald Trump who pushed for the emergency use authorizations granted to Pfizer, Moderna and J&J.
What is really puzzling is why neither the White House, the FDA, WHO or CDC are mandating vaccinations for workers! But liberals just foam at the mouth at people who are skeptical or have totally VALID concerns about taking this emergency use only (not fully tested) vaccine.
Foolish lemmings are so locked in to their political party that they cannot think logically for themselves. Being pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine isn’t a team sport people. It’s not one or the other.
If you’re at-risk, by all means get the vaccine. If you’re not healthy then change your lifestyle. Let’s stop attacking each other over this issue. The nation is a complete mess.
Masks – do not work unless your air flow is completely sealed or you have one that stops 95% or more of the particles that are .001 microns or smaller. If you are at a major airport, or on a plane – by all means wear some breathing protection – but if you think these flimsy cloth masks are protecting you in those environments — they are not.
Tyler Durden
Fucking morons can’t even find Afghanistan on a fucking map and still call them middle eastern terrorists. Go fuck your dirty unvaxed selves.
And NOBODY stole the election moron, your man lost because he’s a fucking loser who bankrupted CASINOS, and people smartened up.
You are the 42% of Americans who revel in their ignorance.
I just came here to make fun of Ken the beginning blogger who was begging for relevance on Twitter today after being bitch slapped by the real Ryan Reaves, and I got to see this fucking disinformation bullshit being peddled by the dregs of humanity.
Tyler Durden
F’ingmorons can’t even find Afghanistan on a fucking map and still call them middle eastern terrorists. Go fvckyour dirty unvaxed selves.
And NOBODY stole the election moron, your man lost because he’s a freaking loser who bankrupted CASINOS, and people smartened up.
You are the 42% of Americans who revel in their ignorance.
I just came here to make fun of Ken the beginning blogger who was begging for relevance on Twitter today after being bitch slapped by the real Ryan Reaves, and I got to see this disinformation bullshit being peddled by the dregs of humanity.
Tyler Durden
Ken, just tell us you believe in the election being stolen, cow medicines work, trump is a genius and I’ll leave alone here and just torment you on Twitter
Richard Santomauro
Twitter? Only lemmings who want to be controlled have twitter accounts.
Tyler Durden
Ok Dick. So Ken is controlled. Hello lemming.
Trump bankrupted CASINOS.
Who does that?
What kind of idiot do you have to be to think trump is a great leader?
Mountain Dew teeth losers, that’s who
Richard Santomauro
Businesses go bankrupt all the time. It’s a law that protects businesses and individuals.
I don’t think Trump is a great leader. He is one. Anyone who believes that the Democrat (Marxist) Party cares about them is delusional. The only thing they care about is total power and control.
That’s the last word on it. I don’t think you’re an idiot, just delusional, brainwashed. And there you have it, a completely divided nation. The bad news is that America is already likely too far gone to be saved.
Ken
Fucking morons can’t even find Afghanistan on a fucking map and still call them middle eastern terrorists. Go fuck your dirty unvaxed selves.
And NOBODY stole the election moron, your man lost because he’s a fucking loser who bankrupted CASINOS, and people smartened up.
You are the 42% of Americans who revel in their ignorance.
I just came here to make fun of Ken the beginning blogger who was begging for relevance on Twitter today after being bitch slapped by the real Ryan Reaves, and I got to see this fucking disinformation bullshit being peddled by the dregs of humanity.
Tyler Durden
@hockey “god”
Fucking morons can’t even find Afghanistan on a fucking map and still call them middle eastern terrorists. Go fuck your dirty unvaxed selves.
And NOBODY stole the election moron, your man lost because he’s a fucking loser who bankrupted CASINOS, and people smartened up.
You are the 42% of Americans who revel in their ignorance.
I just came here to make fun of Ken the beginning blogger who was begging for relevance on Twitter today after being bitch slapped by the real Ryan Reaves, and I got to see this fucking disinformation bullshit being peddled by the dregs of humanity.
Daryl
Just listen to this internet tough guy…. You all better watch out, he might come for you lol You all know how these young studs are
Richard Santomauro
I spent 30 years in the US Navy submarine force. I have been all around the globe. Sadly, America is imploding. The values that made this nation great are being stripped away. Our politicians have sold us out. China is buying up property, businesses and corporations all across the USA, and people like Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, and McConnell are getting rich off of it.
Afghanistan was a boondoggle for the corrupt rich and the lobbyists. We should have been out of that country in 2002. Same goes for Iraq where Joe Biden’s family and other politicians raked in millions if not more on government contracts.
If it weren’t for hockey! I cannot wait until the puck drops so we can get back to it!
knights fan in minny
thanks for your service richard
knights fan in minny
tyler get back in the basement with your mask you pussy your so scared
THE hockey GOD
@Tyler,you voted for this idiot Biden (building back ISIS and Taliban better), blood is on your hands. Brain washed lemming, even OBAMA called Biden a major F up.
There is a vast amount of growing evidence that there was massive election fraud. Anyone with a brain can see it. What is your problem? Oh yeah, you sit on your brains.
Anyone sticking up for Biden/Harris at this point clearly is an enemy of AMerica.
hdbiker7851
Actually anyone sticking up for Biden/Harris should join them in also being consider traitors to this once great country. If they truly believe, which I question as no one can actually be that stupid, they should go and live in a country where what they voted for is happening today. They would be begging to come back which is the irony of it all. Maybe they should enlist and protect this country which thousands have done and died for giving them the opportunity at freedom to act the way they do – they may think differently after reality sets in – we could only hope. Kind of sad.
Pistol Pete
I have lived in our democracy for nearly 68 years at not once have I felt my freedom has been impinged on. Not once. I do think government is too big as it is in all the advanced countries, politicians don’t really cater to our needs, there is always going to be some corruption but less than 150 years ago imo, and otherwise our democracy is not perfect. I am happy with “socialist programs” such as Social Security and Medicare. I paid into them all my working life. They are not perfect or well managed financially, however the average person is unable to plan for these services without the programs to guide them. Police, fire services and other goverment services we take for granted are actually some form of socialism but not ture Marxism which is Communism where all enterprise is government controlled. I understand the frustrations people have with government but most of us are talkers and complainers not doers, activists for change who will knock on doors to promote the changes we need. The Jan. 6 insurrectionists have no real direction or solutions for change, just spoiled complainers who have zero answers to improve our lot. They have all the freedom and most of the luxuries that third world country citizens can only dream of. Really too bad. Their goggles, vests and the other BS. What a joke. Spoiled brats.
THE hockey GOD
Ken
I don’t blame it on stats, I blame it on shortened seasons and two tough playoff sequences in a row. Need a larger statistical sample in order to prove the theory presented.
However, there is evidence if you look at other teams when they over compensated with O Dmen. For example, San Jose. But then again some would say that under performance was due to Sharks overpaying for damaged goods when they inked their big d man. Anyone see a pattern here ??? ( oh wait they both had PDB as coaches, but wait, he’s not in SJ anymore, so that line of thought won’t fly)
Ken Boehlke
There’s no doubt that part of my thinking on exploring this definitely had to do with Karlsson/Burns. I’m not sure I’m ready to jump to a full conclusion on it yet though, despite this article.
THE hockey GOD
thanks for the reply.
jbkr
Interesting commentary regarding the defensive side. I thought Pietrangelo had even more of a deleterious effect with his role in the playoffs as a rushing defenseman continually leading the breakout and effectively pinning his forwards at the blue line waiting for him and the play to develop once across. Stoney and Marchy seemed to have lost all their rhythm and timing working together as a line, as shown by their lack of productive shots and scoring throughout the playoffs. Another case of offsetting productivities.
Richard Santomauro
This is quite thought provoking Ken. What was the thinking when they brought Petro in? Obviously, they wanted more production. They didn’t get it.
In fact, for all the money – the offense production remained the same.
So, either the blame is on the Front Office or Coach DeBoering. Those are the two choices. Pick one … or both.
Daryl
Here’s my take…. It just isn’t going to work with two offensive D-men. First of all, one of their stats is obviously going to drop because you aren’t/can’t put them on the same line at even strength or on the PP. So whomever get’s the 1st line is going to have better numbers, especially on the PP since you use your #1PP unit a lot more than you do the #2PP unit. And while at regular strength you can even out the playing time, one is going to play more often with your #1 even strength unit while the other plays with your #2 even strength unit.
While I like having 2 offensive minded D-men, I don’t think the amount of money VGK spent on them is worth it. Meaning you can have two on your team but you don’t need to spend the money for two 1st liners. Find another offensive minded D-men for your 2nd line at a cheaper price
Richard Santomauro
So, your choice is #1, front office screw up! Mark it down.
Daryl
Yes, my opinion is it’s a mistake by the FO to have both Theo and Petra. Take one or the other (Theo is cheaper and a better contract) but not both
John W
My feeling is that there is a lot of over-thinking here, especially considering the small sample size of last season (short season, COVID, injuries). 27 was our best player in the “Bubble” playoff, and 7 was our best player in the 20/21 playoff run. I think given a full training camp, and a normal pre-season, there is a strong chance for the guys to figure out how to work together. Call me an optimist – way too early in this collaboration to draw a conclusion.
THE hockey GOD
@john W , I agree, keep the faith. It took Stone and 67 some time to come up to speed. Hockey is team sport, it’s not plug and chug.
Dominick
How much of this was tied in to ice time with Martinez? It felt like whoever was playing with him seemed to be playing better at the time.
DOC (Go Knights Go)
And the NON-HOCKEY posts just keep coming.!
Thank goodness help is coming in 8 days!!!!!!!!
THE hockey GOD
@doc was that a hockey or non hockey post ? ^^^^^^
knights fan in minny
your beyond help fool did your boy blunder get anymore americans killed today you must be proud
DOC (Go Knights Go)
ha ha minny the moocher. I own you. You just can’t get me out of your head! Your posts make no sense what so ever.
knights fan in minny
you own me get a grip fool you better take a dose of your demetia meds how many more deaths will be on blunder joes head your idol is a piece of crap failure just like your new site will be
Richard Santomauro
Hold on let me get some beer and more chips. The back and forth zingers are getting entertaining!
Mike StG
Ken, you’re obviously concerned that a Burns/EK65 dynamic or competition develops between Shea & Petro. I don’t think that’s likely. Burns & Karlsson are contemporaries and both alpha Dmen. I don’t think either Shea or Petro have those alpha tendencies, and Petro is a lot older and more experienced than Shea. I also don’t think either of them wants to spend 26-28 minutes on the ice every night either. I have noticed Shea taking fewer point shots and being more selective. Perhaps coaching and game strategy are affecting his numbers. He was one of the most sheltered Dmen in the league when Nate was on the team and had been playing against bottom 6 forwards a lot which naturally pumped up his point totals. His heavier defensive role last szn was bound to have an impact on his offensive numbers. He carried a lot of that load when Alex was injured and out due to Covid. This coming szn should tell us a lot.
Ken Boehlke
I still think Theodore was incredibly sheltered a year ago. I don’t have a problem with then doing it. I do think you are over simplifying it a bit with the “alpha” thing.
sb
Can multiple superstar D-Men play effectively on the same team? Well, Robinson, LaPointe and Savard did pretty well together collecting Stanley Cups in Montreal. What’s the problem?
Pistol Pete
That’s right Daryl, no election fraud, not on the scale required to reverse the outcome. There is always some fraud, however historically the numbers are so small that there is always, I mean always, ZERO impact on the outcomes. You really think if there was real evidence of enough fraud to swing the election to Biden that Trump’s huge team of attorneys woud not have achieved broad rulings in the courts? The claims were universally rejected across both parties in terms of the judges and election officials. Look at Georgia. I doubt you are a dunce. That us why it’s troubling you believe the Big Lie unless Biden’s victory is symbolic against the outcome you wanted and you go along with it even though you know it could not have happened. One of things dictators are known for is claiming election fraus when the people vote them out. That is what is so troubling about Trump’s Big Lie and that so many smart people promote it. Scary shit. Reminds me of 1930’s Germany.
Daryl
As I stated, I don’t believe fraud is as bad as Trump said it was, but it still goes on. So why not do as much as possible to eliminate as much as possible? And here’s the thing with voter fraud, there, there really is no way to prove how much actually goes on. It’s more of an educated guess, but there are no actual facts. And while most of the courts have denied Trumps, there are still recounts AND unexplained events, events that were way out of the norm. My issue with those events is they (democrats) in those areas have not given an explanation as to why these voter places sudde ly did things completely out of the norm.
I admit I voted for Trump, but not because I’m a Republican (I’m Independent), I voted for him b/c I think Biden would be a horrible President. And so far he hasn’t let me down. I voted for Trump the first time b/c I thought Clinton would have been horrible. I did vote for Obama in his first election but got very disappointed in him and wouldn’t vote for him a 2nd time. I also voted for Bill Clinton and think he did OK. I wouldn’t vote for Jeb Bush if he runs
Pistol Pete
Voter fraud will never be eliminated but studies have always shown it happens today on a tiny scale in the U.S. Don’t you think if the conspiracy of voter fraud happened that the volume of personnel required to pull it off would result in a whistleblower? I’m just not a big conspiracy theory person. It’s naive to think they can happen and remain a secret. Someone always spills the beans unless it’s a dictatorship and nobody talks.
Daryl
Who is going to believe what though? You have Reps who say it is happening and have proof (and they’re is proof of voter fraud, then you have Dems who say it hardly ever happens. Personally, I think it is a lot more than what Dems think and a lot less than Reps think. But like I said, they’re really is no way to know how bad it honestly is. You can’t use a study for something that is illegal like this. They’re freaky is no way of knowing.
Which takes me back to my earlier question…. Why not help stop as much of it as you can? And I’m still waiting for someone to explain how voter ID suppresses minorities
Pistol Pete
An interesting piece by Bret Stephens, conservative columnist for the NY Times.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/opinion/what-should-conservatives-conserve.html?searchResultPosition=4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Stephens
Conservatives and liberals in America share some common ideals. Things like life, liberty and the pursuit happiness. Beyond that it becomes pretty muddled I’m afraid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States
Daryl
I do not believe he is actually a Conservative. If your read about his views, he does have some conservative ideas but about half of his ideas do not fall under a conservative.
Will Riley
This is the first time I had replies emailed to me. Won’t make that mistake again.