On June 21st, 2017, Marc-Andre Fleury’s walked across the stage at T-Mobile Arena to the roar of 10,000 fans. It was in the moment he became the starting goaltender for the Vegas Golden Knights, a position he would hold for more than three years, until last night.
For a franchise that has gone through many changes over its first three seasons, if there was one place where you could find stability, it was between the pipes. After claiming Malcolm Subban on waivers four days before the team’s first game, Fleury was the starter and Subban was the backup.
When healthy, there was never a question as to who the Golden Knights’ first choice goaltender was on any given night.
It worked that was for almost three full years. Fleury was the starter in the first game ever in Dallas. He started the emotional home opener against Arizona. He was in the net for all 20 games on the Golden Knights’ run to the Stanley Cup Final in 2018.
He started the opener in 2018-19, he played every game against the Sharks in the 2019 playoffs and he started the opener against those same Sharks to open 2019-20. In total, he racked up 179 starts in the Golden Knights first 256 meaningful games and had it not been for injuries and absences for personal reasons, that number would be well over 200.
However, over the past eight months, four of which saw the NHL season on pause, the Golden Knights goaltending situation has been anything but stable.
On January 15th, 2020, the Golden Knights made a change at head coach, firing Gerard Gallant and hiring Pete DeBoer. This was the beginning of a flurry (pun intended) of changes. Hiring DeBoer signaled the end of Director of Goaltending Dave Prior’s role of selecting the starting goalie each night.
I pick the goalie. Obviously I gather information from Dave when I originally got here and now it’ll be Mike but I’ll decide who’s going every night. -DeBoer on 2/28/20
A little more than a month later, the real upheaval began. Despite starting him the night before, a 6-5 win in Anaheim, Malcolm Subban was traded along with a 2nd round pick and a prospect to the Chicago Blackhawks for goaltender Robin Lehner.
If anything ever happened to Marc-Andre Fleury, we weren’t strong enough to win playoff games if we get to that point. Those are hard decisions, but we felt that way. -Kelly McCrimmon on 2/26/28
A few days later, Prior was
fired placed on administrative leave. The most important man in Golden Knights goaltending was gone, just two days after the team’s blockbuster trade was to acquire a goaltender.
I’m a big believer that competition at any position is a great motivational tool and it always pushes, especially competitive people, to new levels. -DeBoer on 2/26/20
The Golden Knights’ first game following the trade deadline was on February 26th, a game they won 3-0 against the Edmonton Oilers, with Fleury in the net.
Flower (is in net). Easy decision. He’s been playing great recently. It gives Robin some time but he’ll get a start soon. -DeBoer on 2/26/20
The next game, two nights later, went to Lehner.
We’re going with the big fella tonight. -DeBoer on 2/28/20
From that moment forward, the Golden Knights alternated between Fleury and Lehner.
The idea is to have both your goalies performing at their highest level. Flower is our starter. We know when he’s playing his best that he gives our team a real good chance to win. That’s why it’s important that we are positioned for him to do that. Robin gives us a luxury to an extent, to be able to add a goalie of his caliber to our team when we already had Marc-Andre Fleury. We felt vulnerable at that position. -McCrimmon on 2/29/20
After acquiring Lehner, the Golden Knights went 5-2-0 with Lehner winning all three of his starts against Buffalo, New Jersey, and Calgary, and Fleury beating Edmonton twice while losing to Los Angeles and Winnipeg.
On March 12th, the league was forced to halt due to the spread of COVID-19. Players were asked to quarantine in their homes for the next three months without anyone having the ability to get on the ice.
Goaltending is a lot like starting pitching. You can’t have enough of it, especially come playoffs. I foresaw a situation where we could get Flower some rest and have a healthy energized Flower. I also saw a situation where we would use both guys. They both have such different styles. -DeBoer on 4/30/20
On June 8th, Phase 2 of the NHL’s Return to Play began first allowing Golden Knights back into City National Arena. Both Fleury and Lehner were among the players who returned immediately.
With two exhibition games and with three round-robin games, that will give Pete and the coaching staff the opportunity to use those two goalies to see how they see fit. -McCrimmon on 6/13/20
On July 13th, Phase 3 began with the start of an abbreviated training camp to prepare for the modified playoff format commencing on August 1st. Fleury missed the first three days for what was described as “maintenance”
We’ve got two starting goaltenders and we’re going to play them both. -DeBoer on 7/14/20
After the Golden Knights arrived in Edmonton, DeBoer laid out his plans for the first four games in the bubble.
My plan here is both guys are going to play through the round-robin. I think coming off a four-month pause in order to make sure that we get everybody up to speed and are fair and have all the information at our disposal when we start the playoffs that’s the right thing to do. They’ll probably play two and two between the exhibition game and the three round-robin games and then we’ll make some tough decisions. -DeBoer on 7/28/20
The Golden Knights won all four of those games, increasing Lehner’s record with Vegas to a perfect 5-0-0 while Fleury hoisted a record of 4-2-0 (one win was an exhibition game).
Up to that point, there had been a clear rotation and thus the Golden Knights did indeed have “two starters.” According to DeBoer, there was consideration of continuing that into the first round.
I think everything’s on the table. It’s such a unique year, such a unique format. I’ve already heard there’s going to be some back-to-backs in the early rounds of the playoffs which typically you never got so for me everything’s on the table in that regard. -Pete DeBoer on 8/7/20
On August 11th, Robin Lehner was named the starter for the Golden Knights first real playoff game, Game 1 against the Chicago Blackhawks.
Obviously a tough decision when you have two quality goaltenders. It wasn’t what Flower didn’t do, it’s what Robin has done since he’s gotten here. -DeBoer on 8/11/20
The rotation had officially ended as Lehner played in consecutive games for the first time as a Golden Knight. In fact, he’d played in three of the four meaningful games since the team returned to action. He’d make it four of five in Game 2.
I think I’ve been clear since we’ve started this that’s we’ve got two starters. How I roll them out is going to be day to day based on what I feel gives us the best chance to win a game and win a series. That’s not going to change. I’m sure both guys are going to play. What that rotation looks like is something we’re going to discuss daily and roll out the guys, not just in net, but throughout our lineup, that give us the best chance to win. -DeBoer on 8/13/20
Now, with a pair of games on back-to-back nights, it’s likely the Golden Knights will use Lehner in one game and Fleury in the other.
Assuming it goes that way, Lehner will have started three games in the playoff series and five of the seven meaningful games since the team returned to play.
While the words coming from DeBoer remain politically correct, his actions prove two facts beyond a reasonable doubt.
Marc-Andre Fleury is no longer the Golden Knights starter and the goalie position is anything but stable.
I have this feeling that Flower stated he was retiring after this season some time ago and this is why they acquired and have Panda playing so much. Can’t help to think this since the passing of his father.
Maybe I’m being naive, but I can’t imagine a guy who loves hockey as much as he does walks away from the game because he got benched. It’s happened to him before, he didn’t retire then.
Not to mention that $14 million nut he’d be passing up.
Damn Ken, see twisting what someone said again. Eric didn’t say anything about him getting benched as a reason to retire. He SAID it was about his father dying. STOP twisting things, it’s very unprofessional.
so true. Fleury never made noise as a Penguin when Murray got the call. I am sure it hurt but he is a true professional. Murray hasn’t been at his best since his father passed. Could be having a new child and the loss of his father maybe has Fleury considering some life changes
Fluery should have stayed the number one goalie. Easy decision. Losing DeBoer as head coach is another easy decision,
Who knows what anyone’s true intentions are at anytime but Fleury was all in starting the franchise especially after the shooting tragedy in Vegas with #VegasStrong but the worlds a different place and all sports seem to pale post COVID and BLM and the struggle with the anthem and flag Seems his father’s death shows how fragile and short life can be. He walks with multiple Cups, HOF stats and $50 million and if sports continues as an advertising platform then assured ad revenue later so any millions to be really doesn’t matter. Great thoughts on all Doktor Hockey. Keep posting.
Charles, that’s really non sense you are speaking. #VegasStrong is how VGK came in, Fleury isn’t weakened by life’s courses. VGK support BLM, we are a city of diverse and loyal to our people. It isn’t even an issue to have a protest. It’s not the first Police brutality ever. Anyways, the only problem here is Coach DeBoer. They’re mistreating Fleury, he should be treated better
I think this is a correct statement
I think they’re doing flurry absolutely wrong if they don’t watch it he’s going to switch to a different team and then see what happens
That doesn’t even make sense. His dad died and he dealt with it, is dealing. That’s not something you retire over. Rask on the other hand absolutely may retire. That makes sense bc his reason actually benefits from that.
Deboooor better win it All!
Plenty of great coach’s around
Seeing Fleury sitting on the bench with that “someone shot my dog” look is almost unbearable. I have nothing against Lehner – he’s doing nothing but trying to help us win a cup and playing his best. But I have nothing good to say about DeBoer or are management anymore.
*our (Can’t believe I typed that wrong).
I love that Lehner is starting although I miss Flower between the posts. I agree about Flowers “someone shot my dog” look and it IS unbearable. Hopefully he will start the next series and wipe them, whoever it is that next have to face The Golden Knights!
Really weird because they are winning. Fleury fans are soooo bizarre, in that they’d rather lose with Fleury than win without him. Insanity.
Really weird because Fleury has three Cups. And neither DeBoer nor Lehner have won anything.
Rick pens fan
That’s because your a moron who don’t know Jack about hockey
DeBooooor is a disgrace…
He messes up eagerly team he’s “managed “ during the playoffs…
There’s a reason the Devils and Sharks both FIRED his worthless arse..
Love the Knights…really, really dislike the coach..
That’s a shame. So you’re saying that he’s a terrible coach even tho when he took over there was doubt we’d even make the playoffs? You’re saying that his record since taking command (15-5-2) and in the playoffs (8-2-0 which is the best in the NHL right now) is not a positive thing for the team? So when Gerard Gallant was FIRED (to use your invective) from Florida, he is like DeBoer then, a “disgrace”? Or is this all about MAF? So you think the orders given to DeBoer by Kelly McCrimmon and George McFee that his job is to win a championship (period) means he should play a particular player out of some sense of loyalty even tho the other guy is 9-2 with a higher save percentage and GAA since joining the team?
Pete DeBoer SAVED the season and set the team up to presently be the #1 team in the playoffs with the best chance to win a championship. Do you deny this with all the fact I have laid before you? Seriously? All because he isn’t playing MAF right now? THAT’S your reason?
I think it might be as simple as Robin knowing the Blackhawks players and their shooting tendencies. Love Fleury, but you hire a Coach to make tough decisions.
Lehner did not look good on 2 goals in the second game against he Hawks. But winning makes people forget.
Thank you for this article Ken, and what Nick Kypreos said this morning on his show, they sold us Lehner at the deadline as insurance for If fleury gets hurt, after how they treated Gallant and now this shit with fleury, Really leaves a bad taste!! I think Lenhner is a very good goalie, but should’ve been fllowers net to lose!!! After they used his stature to build this team when he was pretty much the only player that anybody knew now they’re just gonna cast him aside without even giving him a chance!!!
I so agree! At first I didn’t like that they got DeBoer. Then I thought he was ok. But now that he’s messing with Fleury I don’t like him. I know you’re supposed to be loyal to the team, not the players. But when it’s Fleury who’s involved it’s a different story. I also don’t like that DeBoer insists we need one captain. Just leave it alone! Especially if he is gonna choose Stone! Yuck!
“Now that he’s messing with Fleury I don’t like him”. For F#*&$ sake grow up. Domyou want the VGK to win the Stanley Cup or is it more important that MAF gets “treated properly “? It a business. Fleury knows that. it’s a business that makes him 7 million dollars a year. He will be fine. He is a professional. Good grief.
What does winning the cup have to do with who Stacey or you or I like? I don’t like DeBoer, either. For F#*&$ sake use logic.
Use logic? Ok how about facts: We were 4th in our division when DeBoer arrives. In a few weeks–WEEKS–we lead it. We are now UNDEFEATED in the restart. Our offense is on fire; our defense is stronger and neutral zone control among the best in the league (that is, if you’re watching any of the other games, you’d see this fact.) Both our PP and PK have improved markedly. DeBoer has been running the team from before the pause to the restart (you cannot count the time during the pause due to no workouts) for just a matter of 3 months or so. And we look like the team to beat in the West, maybe in the league. There were doubts we’d make the playoffs before DeBoer got here.
And you don’t like this man? Results mean nothing to you? Logic beside, how about the FACTS! Geez. I love this guy because he’s a winner and one helleva coach to accomplish all of that in a few months.
PRECISELY! All this “hope” that Flower retires is also ridiculous. He clearly believes he has much more in the tank and so does the team or he wouldn’t have 2 more years on his contract. All this talk about his dad affecting his mind and he’s being disrespected by the team is, frankly, disrespectful to him. He’s a pro. He knows the deal and he’ll remain a leader on the team irrespective of whether he or Robin are playing. By all accounts, they have become fast friends. Read a report a few months ago they spend time together with their wives and families. Amazing all this negativity. Come people! We have as good a shot (if not better) to win the cup as any of the past 3 years. We are undefeated in the restart! Stop with all this negative talk.
AMAN brother Miller!!!!!
I couldn’t agree more! As an avid Flower fan since the day he was drafted I understand wanting to see him play/start every game. If he wasn’t such a great person & ultimate professional he’d have retired after Pgh, but he truly believes he can still play plus made a difference. That being said he also knows you do what’s best for the team and as long as Lehner stays hot that’s who you play. Fleury will always remain my favorite goalie of all time and I hope he continues to play for a long time.
This aged poorly lmao
I feel like it’s another replay of Pittsburgh throwing Fleury under the bus. I hope Fleury does retire. I’ll miss him as others but he doesn’t deserve a second round of being mistreated.
14 million dollars $$$$$$$$$ is hardly being mistreated . What is all this bantering about – this is business not a love affair- whatever is necessary to win will take place. Just because he is not in goal doesn’t less of a leader. He’s a pro and loves the game so regardless who is or isn’t in goal and they win that’s what counts.
I guess that point about fluery just got answered. Still looks like the best goalie. Plus all these people that love to comment in your lack of playing the game. Since when did hockey become rocket science that someone that hadn’t played this particular sport can’t report on it. Your a reporting and given your relationship with the management and players gives you a much greater knowledge than all of these opinionated idiot’s put together. Your not telling them what plays to call so therefore I don’t think playing has any bearing on your reporting. Im sure non of these commenters have ever been president of United States but im sure they tell people what he should be doing even though they have no experience. Bottom line is these folks have no better idea what’s happening within the organization than they I do and i credit you with the patience to tolerate such abuse by those that have no idea what the difference is between reporting and coaching is. I think your great and keep up the great work
Just reading this makes me was for Fleury. I’m a Pittsburher and we still miss him. This also reminds me of what happened to him here……I wish we had him back!
“Mistreated”?? Whaaat. Murray took over won more Cups in two years than Fleury did in ten. It’s a competition and winning is every team’s goal. You can’t sentimentalize a player who isn’t delivering.
Murray wasn’t the answer In Pittsburgh at all especially if you view where they’re at now with him. Flurry played better years in comparison without the geleed talent around him that Murray had. Murray had the timing of the best years that were left in Crosby and Malkin and then the front office couldn’t keep up with the likes of the Capitals, Blues, Islanders and even the Maple Leafs. Fully agree with not sentimentalizing and that’s most likely why Vegas was smart to make the moves as Subban clearly isn’t a top-tier talent and Lehner helped transform the Islanders and has some game left. Time defines us all as it tests our ability to adapt. The league is changing with the speed and power now coming in. Fleury was swifter given the speed in the past and now as he’s slowed a bit and the scorers have sped up it demands a newer style. I think Vegas’ biggest problem was getting rid of Gallant who fell prey to losing some key pieces when guys that are hungry can cash in. DeBoer couldn’t win with all of the pieces except a solid goalie so glad to see Vegas sweeping right now in a very odd playoff bracket but if it’s up to coaching they will fall short when they play the talent-filled teams with great coaching (Capitals or Islanders(watch out for the upset there, losing Lehner but getting Hutton), Bruins, Blues and even the Flames). Those are all teams who seem to stop finesse and speed with muscle while all along whether it’s the beat down they seem to match the speed and steal the glory.
Fleury was part of those wins- the one year it was almost 50/50 and the other a little less but we wouldn’t have won without the help from Fleury. Murray didn’t do it by himself. All you have to do is look at Murray since and the fact that we are sitting right now(not all on Murray but he owns a lot along with coaching inadequacy, and so on). Fleury isn’t flawless but he earned those cups just as much or more than Murray.
Absolutely agree. Well said Karen.
Agreed. Flower is the face of the VGK and we wouldn’t have had the 3 seasons we’ve had without him.
Lehner isn’t anywhere NEAR fleury caliber as an athlete. He’s not as agile, he’s not as athletic, he over compensates on save attempts and count how many times you see him lay on the floor looking like a fish out of water !!!! Mark my words, we don’t make the playoffs this next season if Lehner is our starter and plays the majority of regular season games. It’s an absolute shame what they are doing to fleury. Use him up and then toss him aside even though he’s still and incredible talent in net.
Well you took an article, and wrote a BS story, for your minions!! WHY was flower our #1 guy and starter up to Feb 2020? Because we had Subban as the backup! WHY is flower not the #1 or starter now. Because of age AND we have Panda. The goalie situation for the Knights has never been more stable. AND, another above mentioned something I said months ago. Flurey retiring. No Ken, not because of being benched. Because of his father and the desire he lost. Your thinking is so flawed on this story, it is embarrassing.
DH As usual your clueless – Ken is right fluery will not walk away from 14 million dollars- who in their right mind would. Your love affair with panda continues obviously. Unfortunately hockey is a business not a love affair so emotions have no place. I love MAF like everyone else but business is business. Would l lime yo see him in the net absolutely but that’s my heart not my head. PDB was hired to do a job and make tuff decisions – heart aside and that probably had some bearing why Turk was released from his position. Hang in there Marc and talk the 14 mill that’s a pretty nice retirement package.
How is that a BS story? It’s a freaking timeline using quotes from the team along the way to show what’s transpired. What’s your beef with Ken? Why do you take every opportunity to blast him? Why do you even follow SinBin if it upsets you so much?
I doubt this Doktor dude ever played the game based on all the comments he makes. Plus, some people just have a need to be contrary, or to put it another way, some people just want to a-holes.
Well shit, I praised you Miller, then you take a shot at me? So, not that I need to answer to you, those that have been one this site for a year plus, are well aware of my nearly 25 year background in hockey! Why make a comment you know nothing about? Geez
LOL!!!! Dok just said, “Why make a comment you know nothing about”. Hahahahahahahaha.
Doc, I said “I doubt”; never said you did not. That said, I know I guy that ran a hockey rink for 38 years, never played, never really understood the game (God rest his soul). He was a great guy. Doesn’t mean he got it. You say “25 year background” but you don’t say you played the game. I could say I have a 47 year background because that’s when I started watching the sport, no? I actually started playing when I was 8, so do the math for how old I am. (If you ever went to a Las Vegas Blues game almost 30 years ago, you’d have seen me play.)
I wasn’t calling you out for that. I don’t read all of Ken’s stuff, nor do I read the comments often. Rarely do I comment. Not sure why I felt compelled tonight. But when I do read comments, I have–to the best of my memory–never read one of yours that wasn’t just…contrary. Often to the point of being a di@k. I, like at least one other comment writer, don’t understand all the vitriol. So, and I know you will ignore me, advise that you just stop reading Ken’s stuff if all you can ever be is a di@k. Or you could try being less of a di@k while still being contrary. Whatever dude.
BTW Doc, I’m glad we could agree on some stuff. I actually agree with you too sometimes. So we can all be friends still no?
It is a management decision. When you own your own hockey team, you can make the starting goalie whoever you want. They are paid no matter if they play or not.
Fleury played a big role in that total collapse vs San Jose last year.
He needed to make stops in 3 games and didn’t do it.
Leadership saw this and made moves to fix it. Gallant wasn’t on board and was terminated with extreme prejudice, along with the goal-tending coach.
It isn’t that complicated. I agree with replacing Gallant as coach and Fleury as starter. That ship was treading water. Needed to be done. Keep winning.
And thank you for playing Whitecloud and not Englland.
And thank you for signing Roy and Stephenson and Cousins.
The whole team had a role in the total collapse vs San Jose last year, including the coach who didn’t call a time out to break the momentum. Fleury had a difficult time after his father’s passing, compounded by the team having the father-son trip immediately afterward. Don’t agree with Fleury being old or planning on retiring, just that he happens to be older and more expensive (this won’t hold up when the bill for Panda’s contract is negotiated), and his athletic style is not acceptable to the current powers that be who prefer the Panda’s stand-up style, despite previous success by both goalies using their own preferred styles. Can’t have sentimentalism get in the way of the “what have you done for me lately” business plan…
Right on Jake ….finally some common sense and not puppy dog faces, ha ha This is PROFESSIONAL Sports folks … not a popularity contest!!!
You people sitting there and putting any kind of blame on the Knights, for the worst penalty call in the history of hockey, is nauseating. After Joe the shmoe overexaggerated the check and decided to fall backwards and not protect his own head, as he propelled himself backwards,, was nobody’s fault but his own. Desperate times, caused for desperate hockey playing, to him, I guess.
The Knights were in complete shock and in disbelief at wtf was happening. That bad call by he refs that night, should have never even happened. Whether they took a time out or not.
Incase you forgot, but the NHL Commission Board gave the Golden Knights an apology for that bad call. The board made sure those 2 refs that made that asinine call, were banned from the remaining seasons games. They even rewrote the rulebook in the off season because of that bad call. Now every playoff or important games played, all penalties have to be okayed first though Toronto.
I agree with every declarative statement you made Eric. The only complaint I had at the time was related to Gallant’s handling of the situation. Would you agree that he should have called a time-out, at least after the 2nd goal, to attempt to remove some of the Sharks’ momentum and calm our players? Perhaps taken 30 seconds to give them a chance to adjust? Do you think a time-out during that unjustified major penalty call could have impacted the outcome?
As a goaltender myself, I can definitively say that a break of that type has provided me a chance to clear my head and refocus when facing a huge momentum change. Do you think Fleury (and the team) could have performed better had Gallant made that call?
Thank you for your account of the shabby way in which Fleury has recently been treated by the Knights. (Adding to the list of recent recipients of shabby treatment.) Earlier this year, “The Athletic” published a players’ poll. One of the questions: Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final – Aside from your own goalie, who do you want starting in goal?” No surprise that Carey Price won with 33%, but Fleury was second with 23%. Fleury still SHOULD be the same goaltender that inspired these votes. Yet the way he has been handled, it is almost as though he is being set up to fail. In the two games he played recently, he looked rusty and anxious about his status. Bench sitting is not a cure for these issues; play action and the knowledge that your coach has confidence in you is. The way things are going, I suspect that we will see MAF playing for a different organization next year: hopefully one in which people are treated with more respect and honesty.
Game 3 is the playoffs for Blackhawks if they lose we sweep as they get homesick and want to get on links. If Fluery plays it will be a great test for him.
This isnt a popularity contest.. they have come up short two years in a row and thats why you bring in new players to take you where you haven’t been.. Gallant has a great history with young or expansion teams. The Knights have advanced quicker than expected and thats why the coaching change was made. Sometimes it hurts when your favorite player is benched..Winning solves that
Thank you. It’s about winning. Only winning.
Fleury’s been my favorite player for 15 years. You go with the players who give you the best chance and right now that goalie is Lehner. And don’t get me started with Gallant. If he were still the coach the Knights would be nowhere near as good as they are now under DeBoer.
Thank you Jeff & Dunlap!
From a practical standpoint, Fleury gets paid no matter what. If Vegas wins the cup, it’s because Fleury got them there and he and Lehner finished it (from the goalie perspective). Fleury will get his 4th Stanley Cup.
I hope if he’s considering retirement, he wins his 4th cup and goes out on a high. He could spend 2 more years hanging with Vegas as a goalie, they could buy him out, or some other feasible option. That’s my hope for him.
As for the business of hockey, I am sure it is all business and management looks at players like products. Now, it could be Lehner is starting simply because it’s Chicago and both goalies are great, but an element of psychology with Lehner and the team that let him go no long ago was too good to pass up. And Fleury will go in the next series more. Or PDB is waiting for Lehner to mess up more and then bring in Fleury. I don’t like PDB, he seems like he’s a kind of a jerk. But this could be nothing more than trying to mess with the heads of the teams they have to play. We’ll see.
Hey Julie ….. You actually made a logical (mostly) comment. You must have conferred with a different oracle, huh? 🙂
Dok, who says you can’t be logical and have a heart?
As for oracles, much like the rotation between Fleury and Lehner, I have options. Maybe this week I will break out the Tarot cards and the pendulum. I will get some predictions going and let you know before the game. Ha ha…
DH As usual your clueless – Ken is right fluery will not walk away from 14 million dollars- who in their right mind would. Your love affair with panda continues obviously. Unfortunately hockey is a business not a love affair so emotions have no place. I love MAF like everyone else but business is business. Would l lime yo see him in the net absolutely but that’s my heart not my head. PDB was hired to do a job and make tuff decisions – heart aside and that probably had some bearing why Turk was released from his position. Hang in there Marc and talk the 14 mill that’s a pretty nice retirement package.
I’m sorry, but anyone saying they don’t like DeBoer isn’t paying attention. He turned the team around, period. We were 4th in the division when he got here and now we look like the team to beat in the West. You are ignoring DeBoer’s amazing results since taking over a FEW WEEKS before the pause. We went from 7th in the conference to 1st in just weeks. We are UNBEATEN since the restart. I just…I can’t say what I really want to here. So I’ll just say it’s pathetic!
I love Flower too. I am a goaltender myself. But being sentimental when you’re trying to win a championship is ridiculous. As for the “someone shot my dog” look, according to everyone around the team, he’s been anything but that in the room and the bubble. Flower is a pro and a 3-time champ. He knows what it takes to win and is willing to do whatever he can for the team, even if that means leading from the bench. With the tight schedule, fewer days rest between games, DeBoer will have to use both guys. I agree with whoever said that Robin is playing against Chicago first because he knows their shooters. Playing high level beer league myself, I learn what to expect from guys I play against every few weeks. There is advantage there. Flower will see his time.
Everyone whining about not liking DeBoer because he plays a guy that has been part of the opposition team for months before, and who is UNDEFEATED as a Knight is forgetting hockey (like all pro sports) isn’t about who is favored, it’s about winning a championship. If the Knights win the cup, will you all still whine about DeBoer not playing Flower enough?
Robb, well put and my sentiments exactly. Having 2 true starting goalies on a roster is really unique and affords tremendous flexibility in using them situationally. It makes sense to play Lehner more against Chicago. I think Ken is a little ahead of his skis suggesting that Fleury “lost the starting job” after 2 elimination playoff games. By Round 2 the situation should become clearer (against a different opponent). Personally I cannot imagine they would trade Fleury, so to bench him in these playoffs and then ask him to carry the load for the next 2 seasons seems inconsistent. I think there is a lot more that goes into the decisions being made in goal and that it’s much more nuanced than has been presented in this article.
I agree about being “ahead of his skis” on the starting job issue completely. Yeah, Flower had a weak season by his own standards, but so did the team, until DeBoer arrived. I seemed to remember Flower diving across his crease to make a glove save against Toronto earlier this year that was damned amazing, so I’d say Flower’s got a lot left to go. And you’re right. They both have completely different styles (one is big and lumbering, the other athletic and fast), so the situation of who we’re playing will definitely go into the decision of who’s starts. Great analysis sir!
One more thing, Robin Lehner is a kind, decent, funny human being and very well liked and respected by his coaches and teammates according to everyone around the team So he’s not a jerk. That’s just out of line.
What everyone needs to understand is this stuff is all written by someone who has never tried out for a hockey team, never taken a shift on the ice, never been benched, never scored a goal. He seems to have a decent overall understanding of the games fundamentals. But he’s never played or coached ice hockey. He’s a fan who took advantage of where he lived when the NHL expanded. He likes to stir the pot with sometimes useless investigating. He’s kinda like a security guard. Someone who wanted to be a cop, but didn’t make it and just wants to be heard. Again, some of his stuff is good, some isn’t. But we all have a choice to read it. He’ll never understand why a great coach would chose to start the best 4th line in the league. He won’t ever get it, and again, he’ll never be behind a bench. Nor will he under why a great coach would start a recent Vezina candidate over a future hall of famer.
Well said JP.
I agree…to a point. Lots of current “analysts” and “sports writers” have never played the sport on which they report or ANY sports (Bob Costas is one, but I could go on, even with most of the Review-Journal guys.) I don’t necessarily think you have to be a former player to be a decent analyst. That said, Ken likes to “stir the pot” as you say and, I further agree we have a choice to either read his stuff or not. I will also agree hockey is not like other sports and you have to have played to get what I’m saying, so analyzing the game and its teams, coaches, and players is much harder if you have never played or coached the game. I think Ken does a good job overall, even if he’s a “mall cop” (great line btw!) But he often gets “ahead of his skis”, as Mike SIG said. But, hey, isn’t that the job of analysts in sports? To cause some controversy? I shall continue to read his stuff, even tho I have also gotten into a few beefs with him.
It is incredible to me how much my background has been put on trial due to a story that is literally nothing but quotes from the Kelly McCrimmon and Pete DeBoer.
The Internet is such a fun place. I’m just happy to be here.
Ken, it’s simply people reacting to the fact that you like to give opinions about playing the game and what it entails, when you have never played nor will ever understand what is evolved ON THE ICE. That’s all, nothing cynical.
I still love ya Ken, really. I think I was defending you earlier, no?
Robb, I love everyone. (Maybe even Dok)
Ken you tell it like it is some people just like to be obstinate I may not always agree with you but I try to have objective criticism not a rant. Anyway keep up the good work where else can we vent about our beloved Knights.
I’m not putting you in trial, I just feel like some comments you make are out of context and shows your lack of “hockey game experience”….being on a hockey team, 5a practices w mom, doing the ladder after a loss, being benched for a bad penalty, being the last cut, being injured and watching, when to bench a player, making a decision between who to start,. I’ve done it. Like I said, we have a choice to read SinBin. Overall, I enjoy it, but I also enjoy Granger, his perspective has that angle. And as someone said about good reporters like Costas never played the game, they are also seasoned. SinBin is a green as the Knights. Not as polished, but just a green.
Well, don’t let it get you down. I love what you write, love your coverage, love your personality on podcasts and in person, and I’m thankful SinBin is a big part of my daily life. It’s something to look forward to, always checking in, and listening to the podcasts. I think you and Jason are great! And about 99.5% of the time I agree with you about everything including non-hockey issues, we seem to think the same things on a bizarre number of topics ha ha.
Man this is getting exhausting. Ya’ll understand that Boehlke makes his living off this site, right. He makes money depending on people clicking on site and making comments (which I have no argument with). BUT, he will write anything that he hopes will get lots of responses, whether it’s true or factual or not. And then the BS goes on and on and on. We are supposed to be fans of the knights, right? (or at least most of us). So why all this meaningless arguing, and whining , when we have a friggin great team here that can win THE freakin STANLEY CUP!!! Quit complaining and start supporting the ENTIRE team.
Dok, please point to a single story that has been written in the history of this site that is not true or factual.
You do keep to the facts. I think the headline on this story is what’s causing the controversy. After 2 games of the playoffs (not the round-robin), to suggest Flower lost the start job is “ahead of your skis”. Rarely do teams have a 1a, 1b situation. Truthfully, I can’t ever remember it in the past. And while the quotes are factual, you do draw a BIG conclusion based on 2 games so far. I think the headline is the reason people are upset because 1) people clearly love Flower and 2) there’s not enough evidence to say he “lost” the job. But, I will say that the headline is why I stopped to read, so perhaps it did it’s job. Just don’t be surprised by the reaction here over a beloved player who you are suggesting has gotten benched when we’re only 2 games in with a 1a, 1b setup and a really short schedule, all while the coach has said he intends to play both guys. This is Doc’s point. Kinda a big opinion to say Flower “lost” the starting job based on the evidence I see. Anyway, still love ya dude. And Doc too.
Robb, I’m really interested to see what they do next year in goal. I’m sure it will depend on whether they win the cup this year, which might allow trading some players in their final contract year to make cap space. With what most believe will be a compressed schedule next year – no ASG and break, more b2b games, etc – it is thought the “backup goalie” position will be critical to a team’s success in the regular season. Would be great to keep Lehner and have a true 1A/1B tandem. Lehner could play more as (or if) Fleury shows his age or deals with injury. And eventually Lehner can take the net when Fleury hangs it up. It doesn’t sound like the UFA market is going to be favorable to players over the next 2 yrs, so if Robin likes it here maybe they can work out a long term contract. If they don’t win the cup this yr I can’t see how they could consider trading someone like Stastny (or Martinez) to sign Lehner. I love both players, esp Marty, btw. But the team’s future goalie is a huge consideration if they want to be competitive year over year. Your thoughts?
That’s a very insightful analysis. I think there is the potential to make the cap space necessary to keep Robin. I think the Knights want to do that because of the very things you indicate. I think they can bring up some younger players and let some of the UFA players expire or move on. I don’t see us giving up Martinez. He wasn’t a rental for sure. I doubt they will give up Paul either. Take a hard look at cap friendly and you’ll be able to work it out. They should be able to create $6-$7 million moving a few pieces around.
In recent memory, I’d say your reference (on another platform) to Reavo being benched last night was off base. Noser was hurt and it’s not like Karlsson or Stasney was out. You’re 4th line is down a man, so you sacrifice someone from the top 9 when it’s a tie game…in the playoffs??? That’s the non hockey experience I specifically mean. Reavo was not necessary benched, he didn’t fit into the short bench without Nosek, in a tie Stanley Cup Playoff game.
JP I did not see Reaves was benched. Just because you don’t like facts does not mean you can claim they aren’t facts.
The fact you left out was Noser was hurt. Biggest factor after Patch being out in an OT playoff game.
So you plug in Cuz for a shift while that 3rd line has pretty much dominated? Or you plug Stephenson away from your number one line? What would have done with the short bench? What is your coaching philosophy in that Cup moment? I’d love to know.
I see we won and was coached pretty damn well.
And…..What phantom FACTS are you referring too?
Please let us in on your inside factual knowledge about the VGK in Stanley Playoff hockey.
Yes but you can’t twist the facts Ken, just to support your view.
Dok, in all fairness, you started this. You have been pushing Lehner so hard, Stone too for Captain, I think Ken had to write something on it.
Now you want us to enjoy the “ENTIRE team”. Ok, then, calm your nuggets and don’t instigate.
I don’t see anyone “hoping” MAF will retire. It’s a possibility, but probably not happening anytime soon. A good backup is good and keeps him rested for the next series. But MAF is arguably the heart of the team and that draws loyal fans; I certainly feel it and can’t wait to see him play.
Lastly, Vegas was trading the top position in the division before PDB with Edmonton and even Arizona a few times before the pause. Dec 29, 2019, Vegas was on top for example. Several other times as well. We didn’t suck before PDB.
The team is doing well under PDB, I agree. But PDB still comes off as a jerk, IMHO.
Dok, I know you will blast my comment for not being “logical”, it’s fine, I can take it. The cards say Vegas will win today, not Columbus or Carolina, Arizona could win today.
Julie you are a late comer to this captain thing. Months ago others starting “pushing” (your words) Smith for captain. That was their opinion. Am I not entitled to mine? I have not been pushing anyone. I have been giving my opinion. So you say, I am pushing, but you are just giving your opinion. I now choose to ignore any more of your comments, You just have no logic in your :arguments. bye bye
Go get’em today boys …… matters not who is in net!!!!!!!
Oh, relax. Your insight is valuable and you are entitled to an opinion, we all are. Enjoy your wisdom
PDB has chosen Lehner as a starter, its very clear, otherwise flower would’ve been In the net in one of the games we have played so far!!! And if he is planning on using him in the future on regular basis he should be playing him more, you cannot expect flower to be standing on his head if he plays once a series!! And I’m telling you , we are going to need him to stand on his head once our opposition gets better!! You’re gonna need him to steal you a game or two!! I bet you islanders wished last year when they got swept in the second round that they had a goalie that could steal them couple of games!! In the playoffs you don’t need a safe choice goalie , you need one that will make incredible saves, I certainly hope Lehner can be that, because I want the golden knights to win the cup, but he hasn’t shown that in his career and he Is not young!!
Good analysis Michaela.
Management does what they feel will help the team no player is safe be it Flower or any other player. They have had a lot of hits and also a couple of misses. If you’ve watched the St. Louis Blues last year and this year you know one of our Golden Misfits David Perron is a stud. We don’t even offer him a contract and he signs with the Blues for 4 years 4 million one of our biggest mistakes. Tomas Tatar another disaster 3 draft picks for nothing. It gets better we trade Tatar and Nick S for Patch another bad trade. Patch had 62 points but so did David Perron who plays every day. I know hindsight is 20/20 but I’d rather have 21 year old Nick S. who’s looking pretty good in Montreal and Perron instead of Patch. Now we could have of traded Tatar as part of the Patch deal and could have traded him for some young player. Patch makes over 6 million and won’t play in the playoffs very painful.
Well I heard that David did not want to stay in Las Vegas because his family did not want to live here. He has his home in St. Louis and wanted to go back there if at all possible and as it turned out it was. While I agree that the Tatar trade was bad, it led to Patches, who is our leading scorer in the shortened regular season, so not sure what you mean there. He may have scored 40 goals this season. We have depth in the farm and we’re trying to win now. I disagree that the trade for Patches was a bad trade, even losing Suzuki. So yeah Tatar never fit in, but that was also on him. He didn’t like Las Vegas, wasn’t happy here. Bad trade? I suppose. An old friend of mine once said of business, “if you don’t make a bad deal once in a while you’re not making good deals either.” And so far I think management has made a lot of good deals compared to one bad one. And they turned the not so good one into a good one with Montreal so I give management a lot of credit for the team they built. Undefeated since the restart and looking like the team to beat the West if not the league. And Max will be back before the end of this playoffs.
You would be correct about Perron. He did say he wanted to stay but also that St. Louis was home and his family didnt want to live in Vegas so he was really only ever staying for the 1st year only.
I disagree with Tim regarding the Patches trade though, I think that was a great trade that helped with more depth. Nick S would be looking good on most teams because he is a good young player. He just looks better because Montreal doesnt have a lot of good young players (my opinion lol). Tatar was a terrible trade. He didnt want to be here and he couldnt adapt to our fast play style and was nowhere near hungry for it like the rest of the team. Im glad we got rid of him fast.
Just because Patches cant play right now doesnt mean he wont in the playoffs entirely. He will be back. The good thing about our team is that we have such good depth that even with Patches out right now we are doing good. A lot of teams rely on a few star players and thats it. When they go down that team has problems. Our whole team relies on each other and not just a few people. Its part of why we have done so well since we started 3yrs ago.
Robb thats not true Ally interviewed him the next year after he left and he said playing in Vegas was the best year he ever had in hockey but he said they never offered him a contract.
Thanks Tim, I stand corrected. I had seen this article in the Post-Dispatch in St. Louis, but it did not include an interview with David himself. So was likely the opinion of the writer.
When the coach says we have two starters, there are 31 starting goalie positions in the NHL. Both our goalies are in that top 31. One is probably top 5, the other top 12. We have a great set up. And not a whole lot has been made of the passing of Flowers dad. It happened to a goalie I played with. He never was the same. He’s had a tough year, but kept us in it when he was our only choice. Now we have choices, and as DeBoer says over and over, he’ll pick the line up that gives us the best chance to win that day. Panda is the better goalie today, not over his career, and not as a Knight, but today, in a bubble….
Great analysis JP.
JP, you sound like an old hockey player too! Especially if you’ve had to make those tough coaching decisions. I never really got into coaching. Did a bit when my son started playing at 7. I just never took to it. But everything you outlined is exactly what playing the game is like. It’s hard for most people to grasp. Not to mention the fact that once you’ve played, it’s in your blood and you’ll never want to stop. That’s why I’m still playing at my age. Heck I’ll probly play until I’m in an old folks home. It’ll be funny like when I was 8 and had to take 2 strides to get across a goal crease. I’ll be an old man and have to take those 2 strides again! LOL I won’t have to worry about getting my teeth knocked out because I won’t have any anymore.
Based on what we are 6 -0 so both goalies are undefeated . How does that mean lehner is playing better
Way to make me come out of retirement with commenting here Ken. I dont think Fleury lost the starter position at all. I think it is exactly as DB said and that is wr have two starters. Fleurys current record since coming back means nothing because out of the two of them, Fleury has nothing to prove after basically bringing us to the playoffs as the starter goalie since we started 3yrs ago. Lehner on the other hand does, especially if he wants a long term contract finally. Not that I am a huge fan of DB, but credit to him if he really has improved our team and it wasnt just our boys realizing that anyone could go at any time once the firing started and got their shit together.
My observation is that DB is using Lehner more right now for a couple reasons: 1) he is on a bit of a streak so why mess it up unless you have to like for a back to back and 2) he probably does know the hawks a bit more from the inside and how they function internally as a team than Fleury so it is to our advantage. As for the round robin games, that was just getting Lehner more team time to get used to the guys and how they play. He only just got here a few games before the break happened basically.
Its way too early to tell if Lehner is truly the only starter and Fleury has moved to a lower game count starter/backup. Now if Lehner plays most of the entire playoffs games or this pattern continues into the next season, your Lehner as a start argument may very well be true. But for now I think this is just strategy, Lehner on a bit of a streak, and us getting used to having 2 full starters who each have strengths against different teams.
Now Im going back to Twitter damn it.
GO KNIGHTS GO !
While it is a fact that there is no denying the success of DeBoer since he’s been here, he does have a history. He was a big disappointment with the Devils and Sharks. This goalie controversy seems to me to be DeBoer stating that this is now HIS team, not Turk’s. Of course, winning the Stanley Cup is the one and only objective, but this disrespect to Flower annoys me and many other VGK fans. Let’s see how this plays out. Hopefully they will both play, and the VGK will go all the way.
Totally agree, everybody who works for the team talks about PD be like he’s the second coming of Jesus, how many cups has he won?
Who starts in goal tonight?
This isnt minor hockey, my saying in minor hockey is you pay you play. Robin is in the zone, marc will get it back. Its the way goaltender goes in pro hockey. This is nothing new to anyone other than a reporter trying to stir crap up.
Ken Cousins does a good job on this site. I appreciate it.
The team was regressing under Gallant, who seemed to be stubborn and set in his ways. This is typical for “someone who has played the game.”
My observations were this team, under Gallant, was regressing and The Knights didn’t have the goalie production needed to have a legitimate shot at a title.
De Boer was available and fits more with what the President and GM expect and demand. It is what they get paid for, making decisions on leadership, talent.
And thanks again, love checking out “Cousin’s Sin Bin”
P.S.: Start Lehner tonight, let Fleury close it out tomorrow. Let’s see if he rises up to the challenge. Competition breeds success. Two top-shelf goalies fighting for playing time is a great blessing!
GO Panda ….. Go Flower …..BOTH!!!!!!!!
My take…. absolutely two different sets of obstacles for opponents to work through. Flower covers the net with agility and moving well- which helps when the D is not on their game. Panda covers the net with his size… when he’s in position. If the D breaks down and the puck starts moving side to side- it’s troublesome for a guy of Lehner’s size- it’s just a slower follow and often too late if at all. I love him, but he puts more pressure on his team to defend and score. So far it’s worked. Glad I’m not the one making the tough decisions here.
That makes sense and also matches an article I read yesterday where Lehner was quoted saying basically that allowing one goal was alright and if two the team could come back. It does appear he is ok with it. I’m sure it’s part of his style.
I’m from Pittsburgh and love Flower as he got a raw deal there. I’ve won multiple fantasy leagues by having him and he is a Top 3-5 goalie of all time and sure HOFer. Lately I believe he’s shown a separateness he never had before especially after his father died recently. Doesn’t seem like he wants to play as much and competition with him missing a lot of games was a natural conclusion for especially a change of coaches. He needs to walk away soon and preserve his good name and prior work ethic. Kudos and farewell Flower, you will be missed.
Thanks Charles for that perspective from a Pens fan that watched flower for all those years. I agree with your view.
As another follow-up to your comment Charles. I have been suggesting for sometime on here, that I think it’s very possible flower would retire as I think a lot of his desire left after his dad passed. Others here say he wouldn’t walk away from 7 mil a yr. Well, sometimes money just can’t compete with emotions. Also I though maybe he has already told the knights he was going to retire. Thus the move to get Lehner. I sure as hell don’t know, just using common sense observations. Perhaps the knights even buyout his contract at a reduced amount, then he retires.
-Here for the comments.-
Phil, that is heilarioys!! Thanks!! 🙂
*hilarious… wow, don’t know what happened there
Fleury was awesome!!!!
Such venom…didn’t realize it was such pitched fight over…which goalie is winning games?? Be happy the team is winning. Could it be as simple as:
Who was the coach whose team came back from a 3-1 series deficit and 3-0 third period game seven deficit against Fleury the last time playoffs happened?
Fleury has to do more to win DeBoer’s trust, who didn’t have the experience of watching Fleury’s march to the Final a year before.
Also leave Ken alone.
I think Marc Andre proved today that he still deserves to be the primary goaltender. He has earned the right. Lehner may have won the first two games but he wasn’t that impressive that we bench a proven goalie.
The organization needs to use Fleury to win the cup this year. They owe it to him, the team and the fans. It’s not right they are giving the job to Lehner. Fleury has carried this team since he got here and they need to let him finish with a cup. The fans love him and he deserves to win this cup with us. It’s not right and the fans will not tolerate Pete and his bad decisions. We have the best goalie in the league. Let him compete and win with all the new talent in front of him. Pete wants to take this team apart and doesn’t understand this cities love for Fleury. Do the right thing Pete. Fleury’s is our goalie.
Robin L is a stand up individual been through ups and downs of life just like rest of us. He is not a better goal tender then MAF . One style may work better then the other depending on who we play.
Deboooor needs to insert MAF in goal for next game keep rotating until it does not work. Why create controversy if u dont have to. Looking for an excuse if u dont win?
Lets get onto next round and play hockey no rocket science needed
Such a shame a new coach comes in and picks his favorite goalie to play, kinda like what happen in Pittsburgh. Oh look what’s happening in Pittsburgh, they let a great goalie go and kept the coaches favorite and that lasted for how long???? Murray’s on his way out and that’s what will happen to this Lerner guy. I can tell you that Fleury is a great goalie and a great person and it breaks my heart to see him getting treated out there. I hope the very best for him, he deserves the very best, maybe the knights will realize this as Pittsburgh did, but it will be too late.
I love going back and reading all these posts from guys that say you don’t know hockey unless you have played it. Except everyone who said lehner was the best and the coach was playing the best people for the situation except now lehner is still playing despite the fact that you have a goalie that has never lost to the Canucks and great playoff experience and ther coach still plays lehner. Which has lost the last 2 games and not looked very good. I know everyone is going to say it’s the team in front of him but I don’t agree. The other goalie has stopped all of our shots why should we not expect our goalie to do the same. And ours has been under less of a barrage than there’s. Deboer is coaching for his job tonight because if they lose he is going to look pretty stupid not playing fluery who would be the best goalie to play against ther Canucks based on history. All it does is confirm it was personal with fluery and not really about the team.
PDB said he would rotate Flower w R.L.
Still after a series against Vancouver that could have been put to bed after 5 games when we so clearly needed Flower in did NOT put him in.
These aren’t exhibition games and Vegas wants the Stanley cup.
Please with Dallas coming up consider we wouldn’t be where we are without Flower and our teammates that we know for a fact play best together.
I just wish for this series PDB,
Do some deep thinking and quit w the new guys already.
We all knows what’s best,
Vegas has worked hard for the cup,tighten up the lines with the all star players we know can win and at least rotate Flower into the net already so our defense can play without the pressure of having to constantly have eyes on goal .
We need to get our own pucks in the net and with the right lines and Flower moral is just magical for our team.
Play the pros.
Half of you can’t even spell Fleury right. Half of you are saying Flurry, Fuzzy, and even Flower. Wow. This is why your opinions are garbage. I’m for VGK and Fleury should be playing more. Just cause we won game 2 against DAL doesn’t mean our true backup goalie will deliver for this series. There’s still a championship after this.
Hello-o-o! Fleury’s nickname has been “Flower” for how many eons now? That’s why all of his teammates call him that and why he uses a flower emoji. Oh and by the way, “fleur” is French for “flower.” Yeesh!
I’m a Pens Fan and an even bigger Marc Andre Fluery Fan. I was very disappointed when the Pens let him go over Murray, but enjoyed watching him carry the VGK from the beginning. You guys had our guy. Yes, we were disappointed but rooted for him every game. It seems VGK fans really appreciated his play, his personality, and what he brought to your team and to Vegas as well. Now it appears you have a new coach that has no love for MAF. That’s very unfortunate for him and for you, his fans. He may consider leaving. If he does we can only hope he will come home to Pittsburgh no worse for wear! You all came close this year, should have played Fluery!!!
You are 100% correct, Larry. I don’t believe everything on the internet, but I have seen 2 articles now, the latest rumor that Fleury wants to go to Pittsburgh. No idea if that is true. However, I believe Foley is quite aware what went down with Fleury/Lehner/DeBoer/McCrimmon. I can only hope he will fix it as he has in other situations. But wherever Fleury goes, that will be a team I will follow.
Several posters will drone on about hockey being a business, which it is. But when management goes against the grain like that it alienates fans. They need fans or they have no business. Sure, they will keep some, but most will see how even being a future HOFer means nothing to the VGK management and how tunnel vision got them no further than Gallant actually.