SinBin.vegas

Praise Be To Foley, Vegas Golden Knights Hockey Website

Guest Post: Think Before You Judge

It’s time for another SinBin.vegas Guest Post. We will always strive to be the voice of the Vegas Golden Knights and take great pride in providing a platform for not just our own opinions, but yours as well.

This next one is from Rob Patti, and he would like to have a word with all of you who still don’t like the team name.

Since the Vegas Golden Knights team name/logo was announced it has gotten mixed reviews, to say the least. Everyone has the right to their own opinion and I get that. What I don’t understand is why some of the locals have been so quick to judge. If you hate everything about the Golden Knights and you are not on board, that’s fine. But know that if your hatred for the team is based solely on the name, you will come off looking entitled. All I ask you entitled folk is to let the people whom are excited and grateful at the fact that Vegas finally does have a pro sports team be happy and have their moment.

As a supporter of this team, I can tell you personally it’s been mentally exhausting trying to defend this whole situation and frankly I am dumbfounded that it has gotten to this point so quickly. Its pretty sad that many locals of a city that finally got its first major pro sports team are already willing to ditch them. We are making ourselves look petty, plain and simple.

Bill Foley is a business man, from day one of this entire process he has always been straight with us. He stated many times over that he doesn’t know hockey very well, but he wants to learn. He wants to assemble a front office that he can count on to get the job done, because no billionaire goes into a venture they are paying a half a billion dollars for with hopes to fail. But if you thought Foley wasn’t going to make mistakes along the way, then you were obviously living in another dimension.

The guy did all this and didn’t ask for a dime from us. Do you understand how valuable and unbelievably rare that is in sports? In addition, he’s building a world class practice facility (again with his own money) wanting to start leagues for our local kids so we can have a strong foundation of hockey to build on in this city. Sorry, call me crazy, but that doesn’t sound like a guy who only cares about tourists because he dropped the “Las” in favor of “Vegas.”

What people don’t seem to get is that we aren’t your “normal” city. Yes, regular people like you and I live here on a daily basis that have lives outside of the strip. But let’s step out of the box and think about this from a reasonable perspective. This city was created, built up, and has survived because of the “Strip” of hotels that sparkle down Las Vegas Boulevard. Not to mention back when the recession of 2008 hit our city…we went into turmoil. Casino profits were down due to lack of gambling and shopping…why? Because without tourists, Las Vegas doesn’t exist.

So yes, as a 20 year native of this city, I believe Foley should consider this as not only a local attraction but a tourist attraction as well. He’s going global because that’s how this city operates, whether you or I like it or not. This is the entertainment capital of the world and if Foley plays his cards right this franchise will be one of the most recognizable and popular sports franchises in the world, which sounds fantastic to me. So maybe you should think twice before you bash Foley because he is doing something that seems totally unfaithful to the locals. It’s the city, not Foley. He is doing what the organization needs, whether you chose to believe it or not.

So again, if you don’t like whats happening with the team that’s your right, but all I ask is you try to think outside the box, give this thing a shot (or not, your choice) and just enjoy it! We have pro sports! And quite frankly, that’s all that should matter right now. Because whether you love or hate the name, the logo, or “Las” being excluded..if this franchise works out it will pave the way for your Raiders, that NBA team you’ve been longing for, or even that MLB team one day. So maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to hope to see this thing fail. Because if it does, sports in this town are doomed. That much is certain and to me sounds much, much worse then having a team with the wrong name, logo, or heaven forbid, is missing the three letter Spanish translation of “the.”

-Rob Patti

If you are interested in contributing a guest post to SinBin.vegas, please email us at ken@sinbin.vegas.

Previous

SinBin.vegas Podcast #48: Move On

Next

2017 Prospect Spotlight – Nico Hischier

103 Comments

  1. Michael

    Great post thanks. My only quibbles would be the following:

    “The guy did all this and didn’t ask for a dime from us.”

    I thought he asked for thousands of deposits?

    “So maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to hope to see this thing fail.”

    I don’t think anyone is hoping it fails, rather worrying it is going to fail owing to the way things have been run to date. When a team narrows it down to three names without input from fans, and then chooses the name of those three that is by far the least popular in polls, it doesn’t exactly scream “fan-focused”…

    • Tom

      He got $1540 from me, which is 15,400 dimes. Not a fortune, but definitely a commitment for me. And my deposit went down when he said season ticket holders could help pick the name. Just sayin.

  2. Rob

    Yes, he did ask for deposits for season tickets..because he HAD to. If that ticket drive didnt happen and all those thousands of tickets werent sold, we absolutely wouldnt have this team.
    Also, its a known fact that if you look at how names were chosen for pro teams, there were a lot of cases where owners didnt ask for locals opionions or they did but decided to go with the one they liked instead. Its a more common practice then you think. Much like the TM issues.

    • Michael

      “If that ticket drive didnt happen and all those thousands of tickets werent sold, we absolutely wouldnt have this team.”

      My point exactly.

  3. Dennis Morrissey

    Good stuff. Some people will always find a reason to complain. Will be interesting to see when the team is successful, how many of these naysayers jump on board.

    We have an NHL team in Las Vegas!!! Foley should be applauded.

  4. Rob

    Yes sir, dennis!

  5. Zak

    It wouldn’t be such a big deal if the name/logo wasn’t SO bad, or if Foley has lived up to his promise to let the season ticket holders get some say in the name (which never happened). Honestly the part where he said we would have some input, then reneged, is what pisses me off the most.

  6. PhiSig 150

    Good god how many people need to constantly run to this man’s defense? Foley saw an opportunity and took it. He didn’t altruistically give (Las) Vegas a hockey team because he loves this city so much. Thank you Bill for not asking for public funding (although not sure he was ever in a position to or had any leverage to do so). He does seem like a good guy by all accounts and I’m rooting for him to be hugely successful but can we hold off on his canonization for a few years? I’ll shut up about the name if you shut it about how dare we direct one negative comment in the Creator’s direction? I doubt he reads Sin Bin and then tosses himself onto his bed and sobs himself to sleep because we made mean comments about the crap name. I’m glad he just hired some top PR guy because he sure seems to need one.

    Either don’t make a comment about the name or act like the straight shooter you seem to be in all other areas. Now he can thankfully deflect to the team’s spokesman instead of feeding us BS like locals preferred Vegas over Las Vegas or it’s Golden because of all the mining that most of us could give two shits about. Foley could have avoided a lot of negativity if he said this team is ultimately for you (Las) Vegas but I’m also building a global brand and (Las) Vegas is a global destination and most people across the world refer it to as Vegas. I took a lot of your team names into consideration but I had to choose Golden Knights because I want this organization to set the gold standard and Knights to honor my proud Army heritage. Or said nothing at all. He’s godawful at spin so hopefully he’s got that guy covered now. Forgive me for being blasphemous towards our all mighty Creator please don’t excommunicate me from the hockey club I really want to go a couple of games and I have a sweatshirt supposedly shipping any day now

    • Rob Patti

      Excellent! Well said PhiSig 150.

    • Who in the media, Vegas or Nationally, has written and spoken the most critically of Foley during this entire process from the ticket drive to now?

      • PhiSig150

        You’re basically the only site that has consistently covered this entire process but yes I agree you have criticized him on occasion I don’t know the exact ratio but I would venture to guess one critical comment or article for every 8 that gushingly praiseful (not a shot I love you guys probably because of your enthusiasm). I guess my point is that if you (not necessarily YOU Ken, but some of the people in the comment sections) put ownership on too high of a pedestal you’re bound to end up disappointed.

        Take the former owner for one of my favorite teams the late great Dr. Jerry Buss. He was almost a perfect owner in every way. Won ten titles and made the finals 16 times in 30 years, almost never missed the playoffs, players loved him and he wasn’t afraid to spend so we were always a premier destination for top talent, he was beloved by fans, he was beyond cool I could go on and on but even Dr. Buss who in my opinion is the greatest owner in any sport all time wasn’t beyond fan backlash from time to time. The Shaq trade was horrendous and we ripped him for it. Del Harris was a lame duck coach and we let him hear what we thought, etc. So if a man that assembled some of the greatest teams of all time and two separate dynasties could be criticized I think Foley is fair game (done in good taste- no shots at family, avoiding overly derogatory language, avoiding outright lies or slander).

        The Dodgers are another good example. The Guggenheim Group is head and shoulders above Frank McCourt. They’ve already spent a billion dollars on payroll and billions to buy the team, we’ve made the playoffs four years straight and have damn near a current or former all star playing at every position. They’ve assembled one of the brightest and most talented (debatable) front offices in all of baseball and even made a beloved LA icon (Magic) a figurehead for the team. We’re grateful to a point but we sure let our outrage over the bungled tv rights (3 years and counting) be heard. I also feel free to criticize them for over investing on international players and taking too many risks on injury prone starters (and I can barely field a grounder so what the hell do I know?). Part of the fun of being a fan is playing armchair owner. We should trade x player for y player, We should draft this player, why aren’t we signing this free agent? etc. Where’s the fun in saying well it’s not my millions (billions) so I should just keep my mouth shut or well I don’t have even a fraction of the GMs knowledge or put in 60 hours a week working on making the team better so I’m not even remotely qualified to weigh in so I’ll just let the professionals do their jobs and hand my money over like an automaton.

        Sports is entertainment. Let’s not lose perspective here. If I don’t like the new Star Wars am I not entitled to voice my opinion on the matter (so I guess I am entitled after all to use one of the buzzwords in the comment sections). I didn’t contribute one dime to the films budget. I know next to nothing about making a movie. At the end of day my opinion really doesn’t matter because the movie will still make a bajillion dollars but why don’t I have the right to voice my opinion no matter how insignificant? But but but.. you might hurt the creators feelings. Disney and insert director name here put a lot of time and effort in getting the movie off the ground so who are you to just shit all over it? You should just be grateful you got any new Star Wars to begin with and isn’t crap Star Wars better than no Star Wars (again debatable). Your negativity are really upsetting the people that loved it. Again who are you to judge?? I’m a paying customer that’s who.

      • James

        @Ken Boehlke
        Once the team hits the ice, how do you intend on covering the team? Will there be enough local media to hold daily interviews, press conferences with coaches and players? I’m interested in line combinations from practice. Steve Carp of the Las Vegas Review-Journal appears to be the only beat writer.

        • We intend on being in the building every single day the team is there. If there’s a practice, we’ll be there. Games, we’ll be there. If they let us travel with the team, we’ll be there. We want to be treated as a news source as well as a blog. The current state of covering a team is changing, and our intention is to prove it. We’re fans, but we’re also journalists.

          You shouldn’t have to look anywhere but here to find anything and everything you want to know about the team. From news, to interviews, to opinion, to fan reaction. We’ll have it all.

          • James

            @Ken Boehlke
            ‘The current state of covering a team is changing, and our intention is to prove it. We’re fans, but we’re also journalists.’

            I agree. You might be interested in this video. Having a strong Washington Capitals influence in the front office could work in your favour.

  7. CaptainJohn

    Phi nailed it.
    The identity of this team and how it came about says it all.
    The fans were excluded from its creation (other than anty-ing up).
    It’s an “Army” team, not a Las Vegas team.
    If another location had been available, Foley would be setting up shop there.

    So, we can be thankful that we have a team, but we can also be a little pissed that it’s not really about us.

  8. CaptainJohn

    Now, go buy some merchandise!

  9. Michael

    Criticizing your team is actually part of being a fan, anyway. Very rarely are fans “yes men”. To me, it is fair game to feel negatively about some things, and positively about others. It is not all good or all bad. We will be the same way with the product on the ice – “love that forward”, “hate that trade”, etc etc.

    The only line that can be crossed is becoming abusive, and I have seen no-one resort to that with Foley. All the comments I have seen have simply been pointing out things that have been less than satisfactory. It does not mean anyone is going to refuse to support the team, or denying there have been positives too. But to be a little miffed at the lack of a nod towards the fan base, even when he could have used Desert Knights at least is the fan fave of the three finalists, is a fair response.

  10. James

    There’s a whole Reddit thread about this, in case you’d like to read some other viewpoints that don’t read the Sin Bin.

  11. Tom

    Translation shut up and drink the Kool-aide? Nah. My deposit went in when he was still lying about letting us help name the team. I still bought the tickets, but the name is amateur and the colors are played out. Thats my opinion and I’ll keep venting it until I don’t care anymore. I’m not gonna pretend I like it so I don’t ruin everybody else’s fun.

    • Michael

      Spot on Tom. The fact is, he broke his promise about letting the fans pick the name, at a strategically important time to get the fans on board no less. Does anyone out there love it when people break promises? I am sure Foley would be the first to be outraged if the fans all refused to convert their deposits to season tickets.

  12. RJ

    I’ma born and raised Las Vegan a big hater of the name and I read your whole post as asked. I am not swayed. I have waited my whole life for a team to call my own and I feel like the name is evidence that this team is NOT for me.

    I’ll go to the games, I’ll root for the players, but I won’t say the name or spend a cent on any merchandise that says Vegas without the Las and I certainly won’t spend any money on the golden adjective (LAS VEGAS IS NOT IN CALIFORNIA! AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS?).

    I’ll call the team Las Vegas Hockey Club.

    • I actually suggested that name and I had people with pitchforks at my front door calling me a grass fairy.

      • PhiSig150

        Las Vegas United might be an acceptable new name in the future. Or the Las Vegas Firm. Las Vegas All Knights if we have to keep Knights.

      • Joe

        Shades of Club de Hockey Canadian?!?!?! In hindsight, I think it would have gone over much better than this. Logo could have been like a Habs logo/crossed letters like on baseball hats. Ken, for the record, I won’t ever call you a grass fairy. But . . . . .maybe you can print a bad ass Las Vegas Hockey Club shirt for an upcoming release? Maybe . . . .possibly . . . . . . . something that you might go for? Do it right with cool script and I will absolutely buy that for coolness of it and the WTF looks I am foreseeing it will be generating. C’mon Ken, take a leap of faith on this one with me.

    • Joe

      RJ, you are exactly the reason why this whole debacle makes me the most angry. I continue to have my team that I grew up rooting for and will continue to. My fallback is the my current status quo. I grew up with an NHL team, and all the other major pro sports too for that matter. I didn’t have to wait, like you, to have a team to call my own. This is why it bothers me and continues to bother me. It didn’t have to be this way . . . . and still doesn’t need to be this way. This naming should not have caused any divisive feelings whatsoever. It should not have angered anyone, because it could have easily been avoided (with a majority rule decision —–having Foley narrow it down to a few choices that he could live with). It still can be avoided with nearly everyone. I may be presumptive, but I am guessing that if it was (just plain old boring, quoting Foley) Las Vegas Knights then the feelings would immediately dissipate. I just can’t wrap my mind around why, with the negative feedback, amongst those that matter most and the ones that will either be filling the stands and buying the merchandise, or not, us that live in the Valley, this just isn’t fixed now and we all move forward chalking it up to miscommunication and we all start buying the merch.

  13. Mickey B

    It’s supposed to be reciprocal, right? Foley has to make me feel like I should invest in his team with my money and passion and he gets a lifelong fan in return. I haven’t gotten that feeling, so I won’t. Yes, I think the name sucks and the logos are meh and I hate thay the Las is missing. My opinion. But, a lot of fans feel that way too and just don’t have the warm and fuzzy feeling they were expecting when this all came about, including me. I will still be there to see select teams that come to town and I am happy that the NHL is here, but I was really hoping to be wildly ecstatic and ready to embrace this franchise.

    • Joe

      Mickey B, I am right there with you. You’ve captured my exact feelings. I will still be there for nearly every game, having committed to season seats for 5 years, so I am, and will continue to be, supporting the team with with pocket book. I too am extremely happy to have the NHL in my backyard. I truly thank Foley for making that happen. But having said that, since this won’t be number one team, despite being absolutely prepared to shed/drop down what was going to be my old team (but will now continue to remain my team), not because of any disloyalty, but to be fully immersed in this one, I just can’t. I guess in a lot of ways it is like falling in love or having a true friendship/lifelong bond with someone. . . . . it is either there or it isn’t. No matter what you might want to feel, if the feeling isn’t there, then it just isn’t there.

      As stupid as it sounds, admittedly using a very poor analogy, I really wanted this franchise to be my best buddy, but it is just going to be an acquaintance and someone I will just be hanging out with. The spark just isn’t going to be there the way I was hoping. I already know that and I really wish it wasn’t going to be this way, but I know in my heart of hearts that it will be. This is why I am feeling that sense of what could have been.

      The winning and the losing are truly never going to matter to me as to they do with my old team, my one and only still, if you will, and I wish that just wasn’t the case. The opportunity was there for the connection, as I think it was for you as well, but that door was shut. I didn’t want it to be, but it just will be. Again, it is never about the losing with me. I am as loyal as they come, which is why, as I stated in one of my other posts, I feel so strongly that the connection to this team has to be something akin to a high school or college team, where support is always there regardless of record.

      Even though I have moved on, so to speak, realizing that its just never going to be there for me with this team, I feel for those that can still have that spark ignited in them. It is why I am hoping that at some point in the very near future Foley can bridge the chasm that exists because of the name debacle. I truly think the compromise is Las Vegas Knights, despite all the BS about London having a trademark in Canada, blah, blah, blah. No one is going to convince me that the opportunity is not there to still make this happen. We all know that once Black Knights wasn’t going to happen, Foley immediately turned to Golden Knights to honor the Army. The idea that it was ever going to be anything else is just laughable. Everything else was just a spin and charade after that. He didn’t even contact London to even discussed just being the Knights, yet said it was going to be uneconomical (again without even asking at all), while I remember also being quoted as saying that just being the Knights was too boring and he needed an adjective in front of it.

      There is absolutely no shame whatsoever in admitting that something didn’t go as planned, and then taking steps to change it. There is shame, however, in simply digging one’s heals in and trying to hammer a square peg into round whole and pretending that it fits like a glove. Again, I think the solution is right in front of his eyes. I just hope that someone, anyone, is able to get him to see that a solution exists and convince him to change it. If he doesn’t now, or lets say next season (year two), then it will likely just continue to piss people off even more if a rebranding happens in 5 or 10 years, just as it will continue to piss me off (again in the context of the disappointment of what could have been) that the LAS is missing every time that the team will be announced as they are taking the ice by the PA announcer. . . . . . .and every time that I look on NHL.com and see that they are not listed where they should be amongst the other teams because the reference to the first name of the city for the organization starts with a V and not an L . . . . . .just as every time I read an article that will still refer to them as the LAS Vegas Golden Knights, when we all know that is factually incorrect . . . . . . and every time that I continue to hear Foley say “Las Vegas” with the words “Well . . . . we did it Las Vegas” still echoing in my head in what was then a truly magical day for me. Ohhhh, what almost was.

  14. Rob

    With all due respect mickey if you arent “warm and fuzzy” over the team simply because he decided to do just “vegas” then you were never going to be a fan regardless. Thats just an absolutely insane reason to not get behind this team. This city truly amazes me. We get a pro sports team and the sense of entitlement goes through the roof…over a name ! UNREAL. This is why people in other cities think we didnt deserve a team. FACT!

    • PhiSig150

      Rob I get where you’re coming from but keep in mind the announcement was made less than a month ago. Live hockey is months away. Give us time. Let us rant, vent, bitch and moan, opine, or whatever it takes to get it out of our system. Having a place to do so (Sin Bin) and getting some small validation (Ken lately, kinda sorta) was very cathartic for me and I was ready to move on. Then the trademark snafu. Then another podcast kind of supporting the people with the issue regarding the name but mostly admonishing us. Then your article. I’m almost ready to let it go but like Michael Corleone “Just went I thought I was out they keep pulling me back in.”

      I think a lot of you feel that we’re throwing temper tantrums. You might be right but take it from a father of a 5 and a 2 year old, the best thing to do is ignore us until we calm down. Take us to our room (comment sections) let us have our fit and we’ll eventually calm down. Come drafts time 90% of us will be over it. Once we get a feel good story player, a bad ass, a respected veteran, or a great coach (hopefully all of the above) to pull for and become the faces of the franchise and represent our city most of the other 10% will come around too. We need to experience the games in person. Go watch our Knights at our local bar. Hear about our kids meeting their favorite Knight at their school. We need a rival to unify us in hate (the good sports kind). People expect new fans to just hit ground running from 0 to 100 but it’ll take some time. The name was just one of many entry points into Knights fandom and introductions to hockey for many of us. Be patient I think most of we’ll get to where you think we already should be.

      • Rob

        Phisig 150 LOL. The best comment so far. I understand. Ive said my piece and i will allow the fans time to “get over it”. I just want everyone to rally around the team come puck time and have fun. We all deserve that. Thats truly all i want.

    • Mickey B

      You have no idea about what my intentions are or were, friend. I’ve been an NHL fan and an avid hockey player for over three decades and I would argue that no one was looking forward to a team land here more than me. I was ready to buy boatloads of merch, push my favorite teams to the back of the queue and go “all in” with our sparkling new team. So, you’re flat out wrong when you think I based it all on a name. From everything I’ve read or heard about this team on this blog, in the news, or with some of my friends that know folks on the team side, I don’t feel a connection. At all. No sense of entitlement from me. No anger. It’s just nothing. Others here in this blog and others who remain voiceless feel the same way. It doesn’t matter what the reason is, but there are many who just don’t feel the connection too. Calm down and don’t get triggered about it.

  15. A Fan

    I agree with a lot of the comments made here so I’ll try and not repeat too many of them. I think the thing that set some of us off (me included) was that Mr. Foley lied to us. Up front he said the season ticket holders would have a name the team contest…we all know how that worked out. Nothing worse than being lied to when just starting out in any type of relationship, any type. So now I have doubts whenever he tells us something, and that’s not a good thing.

    I don’t like the name, colors are nothing special. He said he wanted the colors to ‘pop,’ nothing ‘pop’ with these colors. (Think Flyers orange) The logo is ok, but again, nothing special. The logo would have been much better with a much better name such as the LAS Vegas Mustangs/Aces/Scorpions, etc. Will I support the team, yep. I purchased a season ticket the second we could do that. Will I buy much merchandise, probably not. I waited in line to go into the store the night of the team name announcement, but the items just didn’t do much for me. I walked out of the store with nothing and actually felt kind of sad that I wasn’t excited enough to buy something.

    I understand that LAS Vegas is an international city because of the tourists and they should be marketed to as well. But we locals are going to be the life blood of this team. Will a lot of this be forgotten once the first puck is dropped, probably. But until then, there were some things that were done that left a shi##y taste in my mouth.

  16. Slack

    Going back to the original guest post, Rob you did a fine job and said it well. I applaud the efforts of Foley in bringing NHL hockey here and starting to grow youth hockey. That. Is what is important to me. To those that feel slighted because the they didn’t have a stupid name the team contest, how about you vent at Gary Bettman. He’s the one who dragged ass in getting this franchise going in a timely manner. As for me, I’m personally glad they didn’t do a contest otherwise we’d probably be the “Mighty Scorpions of Las Vegas”

    • Zak

      LV Scorpions would have been the best possible name. Sorry you don’t agree.

      • Slack

        A Scorpion is nothing more than a desert cockroach that I pay to exterminate. That, and a bad 80’s band. I’ll take Vegas Golden Knights over that any day.

      • PhiSig150

        Scorpions is bad ass. I liked Venom because then you could several directions with it (snake, spider, scorpion) Lots of potential. Could have had 3 different unis with all different logos. (Las) Vegas Venom also has nice alliteration The possibilities were endless. I also liked Las Vegas Battle Born. Honors our state heritage, the Army, and our local Air Force. Could have had a Knight or any warrior, a tank, a cannon, etc. Pretty sure outside of a local punk band it had no copy right issues. But what do I know I don’t work for Adidas. Oh well sour grapes now. Let’s Go Las Vegas Knights!!! (never Golden, not in my house dammit). On a side note the logo kind of reminds me of MF Doom (Jason probably knows who I’m talking about). Hope we don’t have another trademark battle on our hands. I actually love the logo but I also love Magneto and 300, maybe Foley is a huge comic book nerd. Follow up Ken could be another element to your Creator that could endear him to fans.

        • Joe

          I am with you. Las Vegas Battle Born would have been really cool. I would have been really good with that. Blue and Silver unis would have been phenominal. I don’t even think a logo of a character would have been necessary. Just something like the NYR.

    • Rob

      Thank you, slack. This honestly was the first time I’ve ever written a post. I appreciate the comments.

  17. Joe

    I absolutely love reading all of these posts, whether they agree with my POV or not. I say with complete sincerity, I truly love the passion and thoughtfulness that you all have and share. I am not the type of person that feels that everyone needs to agree with POV, and like engaging/debating with/learning/understanding differing POVs. I am always open to having my mind changed. Again, thanks to all of you for sharing all of your opinions. I truly appreciate it. I also really appreciate the fact that we can all engage in meaningful discussion, relatively speaking of course, without anyone feeling the need to insult someone else. I also appreciate all the effort that Ken has gone through to set this whole thing up. Jason’s work, and Dana’s before him, is also appreciated. I can’t help myself as much as I try to not put two cents in, so I will put some random comments under some of yours. Thanks again for sharing all of your opinions and being tolerant of mine.

    • You are the best my man! I’m with ya, whether I agree or not with everyone’s comments, it’s amazing to see so many people who have em. 50+ comments on a team name post for a team three weeks after the announcement, six months before they have players, and nearly 10 months before they play a game should say something. Thanks for the support, and double thanks for the kind words.

      • sparky chewbarky

        Thanks for your efforts Ken.
        Hey, a knock against this team, team name, name process, etc. etc., is in no way, a knock against you. I’ve had an interest in this team since Day 1.
        I’ve been following as much as I can from up here in backwater, Ontario, Canada, and I’ve probably gone to the team’s official website only about a half dozen times total. My info has come from hard-working fans like yourself, Jason, Eric, etc. etc., here, over at HF Boards and at Chris Creamers. I’ve said this before, but this franchise owes you guys at least a nod of gratitude for keeping the conversation and interest going…For organizing the charity drive, the announcement party, etc.. I mean, from afar, it seems that the team’s Marketing group has organized what??… the naming ceremony?!! and THAT went well!
        They need to get their ass in gear.
        Keep up the good work Ken.

        • Joe

          Perfectly said, Sparky! You guys are the premier and, in my view, only source to follow regarding the team. You guys have much more of the pulse than any of these folks on the payroll. You have put in the most effort and time without question and should be rewarded for it. As I’ve said before, the passion is what creates the interest which creates the connection if reciprocated.

          I kinda doubt Foley has the awareness that it even exists, but to me he should hire both you guys in a heartbeat to turn this blog into what has been done with the LA Kings insider, now manned by Jon Rosen but first launched with Rich Hammond.

  18. A Fan

    The idea of the stupid name the team contest as @Slack calls it wasn’t our idea, it was Mr. Foley’s idea. I think it was brought up to help sell season tickets before he realized that so many of us would actually support the new team. So I guess @Slack thinks all the season ticket holders are stupid because all we would have come up with is a name similar to what he mentions above. C’mon, really now? And blaming Bettman doesn’t have anything to do with a possible name the team contest. We can’t just blame Bettman for everything. LOL

    • Slack

      My post wasn’t meant to insult. I just think people have lost a little focus here.
      As for blaming Bettman, sure we can. Ha!

    • PhiSig 150

      I would love for Foley to one day come on the podcast and answer questions regarding the name.

      Why did he change his mind on the name the team idea?

      Did he ever try to get just Knights name or did he put feelers out to the junior team and it would have been just too difficult to work out?

      Was Aces ever considered? Did Bettman shoot it down for gambling associations, was there a trademark issue, or did you just not prefer it?

      What were some of the names pitched by fans that you actually liked? Besides Ken’s Rat Pack what names did you find laughably bad?

      If he had to do it all over again what would he do differently?

      • sparky chewbarky

        Ditto here Phi…
        I would love to know how all this really went down. We’ll someday get a more detailed presentation on the creation of the theme/name/logos…it seems to be the thing to do these days. But you just know the official take will be a spun version. I’d love to see what was left on the cutting room floor. It certainly isn’t by chance or by any “democratic” procedure that we ended up with a VERY Army-ish name and a VERY Army-ish logo with VERY Army-ish colours. But, it isn’t unusual for an owner to do things his/her way. It’s been done many times before.

      • Believe me, we are working on it. When we finally get him, we’ll be sending up the bat signal asking for questions.

  19. A Fan

    Ok, I guess we can. LOL

  20. James

    It would have been worse if Scorpions won the name the team contest, but Mr. Foley said we’re naming the team Golden Knights anyway. In hindsight, Mr. Foley shouldn’t have mentioned a name the team contest. It was pretty obvious that Mr. Foley had his heart set on Black Knights in his first public comments regarding hockey two years ago on CBC.

    I’m not bent out of shape about the team name because I always assumed that it would be Black Knights. Never had an opportunity to dream about other names until recently. I didn’t give it much thought back then. I was more concerned about getting a team.

    I guess Mr. Foley could have had a watered-down name the team contest between Desert Knights, Silver Knights and Golden Knights, but he didn’t really like Desert Knights or Silver Knights. Might as well go all the way. I actually prefer Golden Knights over Black Knights.

  21. Murrayyyyy

    Does everyone realize that they accept shortened or changed city names all the time in sports? Here’s a couple for you to chew on.

    Tampa Bay Bucs, Rays and Lightning. (It’s Tampa)
    New England Patriots and Revolution (not a real city)
    Washington Redskins and Capitals (Washington is a state, it should be Washington D.C.)
    Carolina Panthers and Hurricanes (Not a city or state name)
    New York Giants and Jets (Not in the city or state)
    New York Red Bulls (Jersey again, I mean New Jersey because no one shortens a state…evah)
    Golden State Warriors

    We are quick to accept these names because most of us have grown up with the teams having these names. Do you get upset because they are no longer the Boston Patriots? Do you lose sleep at night that the San Francisco 49ers play games an hour and a half away from the city known as San Francisco? Do you stop people when they say LA Lakers or LA Dodgers and tell them it’s the Los Angeles (nickname).

    With regards to the nickname contest, I think you have to look back to when we were awarded the franchise back in June. In my heart, I believe that when he threw out the naming contest 2-3 years ago because he believed he could name the team whatever he wanted to. He was putting up the money so it’s his choice obviously. Then reality started setting in. Minus season deposits, the team was making no money. A naming contest would only delay things (and delay bringing in money). All these employees they have right now aren’t bringing in a dime so there was only one way to bring in money to pay the bills. Get a logo and slap it on some stuff.

    Now there are those that will throw out a debate about why we didn’t have a naming contest before hand. I’ll pose this question. Does anyone remember the nickname that won for the Quebec franchise that wasn’t awarded? Of course not, because there wasn’t one. So for all those that were disappointed in June/July when it didn’t happen need to realize that it doesn’t work that way.

    I don’t remember how long it took for teams to get logos in the past but I think they were better off taking their time with this one. Remember the original Lightning logo? (http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/view/ve7oj40hakrfpe6a5ju8fr3p4/Tampa_Bay_Lightning/1993/Primary_Logo). What about the original Ravens logo (http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/view/30cb4f54ns3sg4ufjgwlqthkj/Baltimore_Ravens/1996/Primary_Logo).

    Nicknames take time to get use to. No one would accept Penguins in Pittsburgh or even Lions and Tigers in Detroit but it’s natural now. Those Lakes in Los Angeles, that huge Jazz scene in Salt Lake or the home of the Blues (St Louis). I agree that it will take time to get use to the Vegas Golden Knights but if it’s been so easy to accept everything above in sports, it should be just as easy to accept this one too.

    • Joe

      Murrayyyyy, I will take my shot at giving you my POV and why leaving off the LAS is a big deal to me, and why I think it is for others that are very bothered by it. Just to get it out the way, the Golden is not nearly as big a deal to me as the missing LAS.

      As to your using Tampa versus Tampa Bay as an example, the region is known as Tampa Bay or the Bay Area because of the large population that also lives in St. Petersburg. Tampa Bay encompasses both. From what I understand this is the same kind of thing that exists with the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, which is why all their teams use the State name, not an individual city. As to New England versus Boston, New England is the region because of how many states are clustered together. As to the Warriors using Golden State, I believe that it was the same decision given that you have Oakland and San Francisco sharing one basketball team. As to why the Hurricanes used Carolina, it is to represent the Carolinas, North and South, which is a common reference to the region, just as the Dakotas are used. Its an inclusive reference, not an exclusive reference. So my point being these names, I believe, are all used as ways of compromise to ensure that no one in the region is feeling alienated, but rather feels included and not left out. Which brings me to why the term “Vegas” on its own has such a visceral dislike to some, including me.

      I am certainly no expert on those other areas that you mentioned, but I don’t think that those names used cause any negative reaction to anyone in those regions. Whereas, the reference to “Vegas” alone does elicit a very negative reaction to some that live in the Valley. I myself always say “Las Vegas” or “LV”, but never just “Vegas”. Why? Because that term represents the party/degenerate attitude that goes along with it. It represents the tourist element in the sense of “I am going to Vegas to let loose and get wasted/get F’ed up”.

      As was written by a guest article a week or two ago, I live in Las Vegas and not Vegas. As Eric, the best f’n popcorn maker in the world, explained in a voice message used by Ken and Jason in their podcast after the name reveal (which sums all of my feelings up perfectly), “Vegas” connotes frat boys chasing after strippers, coked out of their mind, and bacholorette parties of drunk girls getting wild and crazy on the Strip (I am paraphrasing what Eric essentially said). It is the “What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas mentality”, which translates to come here to be a gigantic tool, and then go back to acting normal and responsible wherever it was that you came from. For those of us that avoid the Strip, and don’t act with that type of mentality, those of us who work standard jobs, live in standard homes, and live standard lives, we say that we live in Las Vegas, because to us we don’t want to be associated with that mentality/image/stereotype. You know the stereotype that if we live in “Vegas” we must be gambling and alcoholic degenerates. You know the perception that NHL players that live here are going to have a really hard time staying away from all of the “distractions” that Vegas has to offer (read some of the earlier stuff that Ken and Dana wrote very early on about how that idiotic perception does anger some of us). You know the perception that the “Vegas” NHL team is going to have the best home record in the NHL because all of the visiting teams will be getting wasted out of their minds until 8 in the morning if they should happen to arrive here the night before. Case in point, Gord Miller said/intimated this exact thing during the Kings/Pens game last night, when discussing the expansion draft and the fact that MA Fleury might end up here/slash the Pens will need to figure out a way to get rid of Fleury. You know the perception that the Raiders will have an impossible time keeping their players out of trouble if/when they move here (in a Mercury News article yesterday). You know the perception of how nobody lives in “Vegas” and how is an NHL team and NFL team going to be supported (despite there being 2.2 mm in the metro area). You know the perception that nobody in hear works a regular job in a regular field.

      Soooo. . . . . what does the “Vegas” perception/connotation mean to me? Well it means constantly having to defend living in a place that actually is a very normal place to live. A place that has schools, hospitals, courts, parks, ball fields, ice rinks, etc. just like every other F’N big city/metro area in America. It means having to constantly get the feeling of if you don’t live here you have no f’n idea of what you are talking about and should just stop talking. It means feeling like somehow the sports world views us as second class citizens as though WE have to prove that we should have the right to prove that we are worthy of the major leagues.

      Thats what not have those three little (inconsequential to some) letters (the “The”) means to me, and I think many others, especially those that feel the need to defend the honor of the City, a place that they feel is worthy of defending. Its why I can’t just “get over it”.

      Just my two cents.
      (Sorry for the typos)

      • PhiSig 150

        Nailed it. When friends or family are visiting I ask when they’re getting into Vegas but when I tell people where live I say Las Vegas. Las Vegas is classy, professional, and for grown ups. Vegas is a playground for the rest of the world (albeit an awesome one). Considering all the reasons he gave went for selecting Knights it seems the useage of Vegas flies directly in the face of those. Although I’m a transplant so I’m not as passionate about Las Vegas vs. Vegas I just think it sounds more professional and has a better overall flow to it. There’s a ton of colleges that have 4 names and have no problem at all with their brand or merch sales merchandise (North Carolina, Notre Dame, etc.). He could have gone with Las Vegas but still marketed Vegas. He could have paid off the junior hockey club (or just gone without a trademark in Canada like Ken pointed out some MLS clubs took years to get their trademark through). Pretty sure most people like you’ve stated could have lived with Las Vegas Knights. It’s the loss of Las and the addition of a stupid adjective that really are bothering some people. Seems like they could have easily been avoided.

    • berri

      Hard to read past you example of Washington being a state and should add DC. You have looked at a map lately I assume…I hope.

  22. PhiSig 150

    Did we ever get an official statement from the Army outside of “We’re looking into it.”? I think that might be the biggest failure in the name debacle that’s no one’s really talking about. Foley obviously loves and respects the military and would never do anything intentionally to disrespect the institution. Despite Foley’s passion for gold mining (Am I the only that wasn’t aware of the gold mining out here?, I did however know of the parachute team) the name of the team is clearly a nod to the Army. I get he wants to pay homage to them but do they want it? Do they feel insulted that after he got shot down on Black Knights that he didn’t get approval for Golden Knights? The name isn’t going anywhere but a part of me has to wonder if Foley is bummed that the Army hasn’t acknowledged his gesture publicly in a positive way.

  23. James

    @PhiSig 150
    Foley said something to the effect that Army spokeswoman Alison Bettencourt was above her station, haven’t heard a word since.

    • I called the Army parachute team (not calling them the Golden Knights anymore, we are the Golden Knights…and St. Rose I guess, but that’s another story.) and they told me they would get back to me with Alison’s contact info. No one did. Three days later I tried again, same result. Think she made the comment to a random newspaper guy thinking it was harmless, it blew up, and now the best idea is to hide and hope it all goes away. Which I think is what everyone wanted anyway.

  24. Mickey B

    I think most everyone can agree that things have been a bit rough so far. Not the end of the world by any stretch and hopefully just all part of the growing pains of a brand new team. Fair points earlier that it is still too early to be down on this bunch. Right now, I’m not feeling the Knights as my favorite team. But, time will tell if the team eventually grows on me. I will keep my mind open and give them that chance. No problem there.

    I also agree with earlier comments that for arguably everyone who posts here and for all other hockey nuts across the valley, all of this nonsense will probably go out the window once the ice goes in at the arena, the palpable excitement of game day is in the air, and the first puck drops. I know I’m going to try and start looking past the blemishes and miscues, because in the end, all that truly matters to me is that the NHL is here.

    Hell, I’m getting goosebumps already. Is it October yet?

    • Michael

      Good post, and humans have a way of adjusting to new realities. I think I am most disappointed, name wise, that he actually picked the worst and least popular of the three ‘Knight’ names. If he had picked Golden Knights out of thin air from the start, it would not have seemed as bad as ignoring it’s obvious unpopularity compared to Desert and Silver (though those aren’t exactly perfect names either). I just got used to thinking the Desert Knights would be playing in awesome, Red Rock inspired Red, Copper and Gold uniforms, and the new reality seems drab by comparison.

      Put it this way – I was at the name unveil, and my wife and I actually groaned at the name, rather than cheered, and we weren’t the only ones either. That is not the response you want at a name unveil!

      The overall concern is that we are indeed a new, unique market, and Foley really does need all the help and enthusiasm he can get to keep the franchise afloat through the coming years of inevitable poor results. Even throwing us enough of a bone to pick the most popular of those three names would have been something.

  25. Phisig150

    Foley seems pretty confident that he’ll deliver a Stanley Cup to (Las) Vegas in a 6 year time frame. I say Foley makes a wager with us. If he’s right the name is Vegas Golden Knights from now to eternity with the haters getting Golden Knight tatoos. If he’s wrong however he agrees to rename the team for year 7 letting the city decide the name and also if it should be Las Vegas or Vegas. Seems fair. How about it Creator you up for some Vegas style fun?

    • Michael

      Ha ha – nice idea. 6 years is not going to happen. There are 5 teams that have never even been to the finals – Minnesota, Winnipeg, Columbus, Nashville and Arizona, all of whom are somewhat newer. Then there are some fairly storied teams that have been to the finals and never won, like Washington or San Jose. And we are somehow going to win it in 6 years? It is nice to have dreams, but I would be ecstatic to nab a cup in the first 15 years of existence or even 20.

      • Phisig150

        I think cup in 6 was something McPhee said at a press conf. I don’t expect us to reach the playoffs the first 5. After that I like to see a team that is at least batting for the 8th seed then progress every year a bit more until we’re a team that goes on deep playoff runs. 10 years seems a fair amount of time to build a contender. Foley seems more confident so I’ll put up my shoulder for a Golden Knights tatoo vs him giving us a rename the team contest. I’ll even give him an additional 4 years . So take your pick Mr. Foley, year 11 or 7, how confident are you in your front office?

      • James

        @Michael
        I wouldn’t bet on it. He is very ambitious. It took the expansion New York Islanders 8 seasons to win the Stanley Cup. I think Foley was laying out the best-case scenario during the season ticket drive. At least I hope so. For the sake of the front office 🙂

    • Should I email this to him?

      • PhiSig150

        Absolutely feel free to Ken. I HATE needles. I’m in my mid 30s and would never ever get ink in a million years but if Foley can deliver us a Cup as fast as I think he thinks he can I will proudly go get a giant Vegas Golden Knight tattoo on my shoulder and Sin Bin can film the whole thing (even me crying while getting it). He can also plaster my car with Golden Knights and I’ll be his walking and driving billboard for the name he loves. If his estimates are a bit off, however, then we revisit the team name. It’s win-win for Foley really. We win a Cup and he’s on Tark god status out here and if we don’t then he gets to sell a shit ton of new merchandise.

    • Joe

      This is a f’n brilliant, Phi. Brilliant! A true “put your money where your mouth is” situation. Foley wins then I/we never say another word about the missing LAS and the Golden stays. We win then we 1) put the LAS in and drop the Golden or 2) do a true name the team contest/at least be given multiple choices to choose from with the choice of adding in the LAS or keeping it out (*with the stipulation that Sparky designs the logo if a new name that fans choose(wouldn’t Foley want to go with the logo fans want and will then buy?!?!?). Truth be told, I’d be okay with the bet just being the team becomes the LAS Vegas Knights.

      As an FYI, Phi, it was Foley saying originally a Cup in seven then changed to six at the reveal. McPhee, nor any other gm, would never be stupid/brash enough to make that kinda of prediction/jinx.

      HELL YES, Ken we’d like you to email this to Foley. This would be the ultimate win-win, right? How much better FREE publicity would this be. If he agreed to this (this one needs to be in writing and memorialized/witnessed/filmed by the tremendous Sin Bin staff), I’d instantly STFU about the name as I’d imagine everyone else who doesn’t like it would do too.

      • PhiSig150

        Yes I’d be willing to sign a legally binding contract. He can even parade us out during the ring ceremony (hockey does rings right?) and I will bow down to the King and show off my fresh tat. Also I agree 100% Sparky designs the new logo.

        • Joe

          Ha Ha. That is too funny. I’m not worried about you being the one to live up to your end of the bet, it’s the other guy doing it. My comment was made before seeing that you were putting your own skin in the game . . . .literally. I so wish that Foley would take you/us up on this offer, but unfortunately I don’t think we can hold our breath on this coming to fruition as awesome as it would be. It really would be a way for Foley to gain a connection right away to those of us that aren’t feeling it. A way to show that it is LAS Vegas’ team and not the “World’s team”, as we know it is what this is really about. I know I’m living in fantasy land here that this is going to change anytime soon.

          Given how much more popular the NFL is than the NHL, I am already really concerned that once the Raiders get the green light that the Knights will be struggling for relevancy here as the focus will be entirely on the Raiders. It’s why I think all of us who love the NHL want to make sure that somehow, someway that a really strong bond is created between the City and the team, which Foley is responsible for, with an understanding that it could be a long, long time before, if ever (relatively speaking) that any pay dirt is hit.

          I’m glad that some are exceedingly confident that this supposed dream team of a front office is going to immediately assemble a really good team but that mindset is pretty delusional IMO because it’s assuming that other teams don’t have quality front office staffs and scouts too. The reality is that both the Caps (gm) and Cats (head of amateur scouting) had to suck to acquire lottery picks and yet neither franchise has hit paydirt because of it. For all the accolades of McPhee rebuilding the caps after breaking it down, they have never even been (ovechkin draft forward) within 9 wins of hoisting and FLA has not been within 13 wins of hoisting (huberdeau draft forward). Again perspective is everything here.

          • PhiSig150

            I do think it’s a shame that there are some people that are having trouble finding a connection to the team. Foley needs to find a way to get these people back in the fold. Yes time and winning will heal most wounds but what about the here and now? Our name wager would be a great publicity stunt but like you said has almost 0% chance of happening. So what else then? We need a crazy rowdy die hard fan section at games. Similar to the Dawg Pound.

            The Cleveland Browns has a name that for anyone not alive during the Paul Brown era (fewer everyday)has little meaning to them. The colors are horrible. The logo is the worse in the NFL if not all sports (an orange helmet really? that’s it?) and the occasional mascot I’ve seen is this stupid elf creature. They rarely if ever win and even moved the damn team. But Cleveland at least has the Dawg Pound. If I was a Browns fan I think I would take pride in this crazy bunch and identify more with them than my moribund franchise trotting out their 35th starting QB to run plays for their 12th head coach this decade. So for people that hate the name but either love hockey or the fact (Las) Vegas has a pro sports team let’s give them a group to be apart of (not to mention buy all merchandize that Sin Bin can crank out). You don’t have to like the name but you do have love the team, be really loud but not overly obnoxious, drunk is fine just not black out, and being rowdy and boisterous is encouraged just try not to act like a Raiders fan. Basically like soccer hooligans but far less stabby and no rioting until we hoist the Cup.

            Potential Names:
            Las Vegas Drunk Tank (my personal favorite)
            The Squires (Scrappin’ Squires? Squires (Goon?) Squad?)
            Las Vegas United (for our futbol loving friends)
            Gold(en) Army (take back the ownership of the word gold)
            Looney Bin
            Sin Bin Lunatic Fringe

          • James

            @Joe
            I couldn’t help but to imagine Vince Young when I heard Ken call the front office the dream team. Let’s hope it works out better than the Philadelphia Eagles incarnation.

            I would sign up to be the second coming of the Washington Capitals. Despite their lack of success in the postseason they have been a treat to watch. I hope Las Vegans don’t have the same apathetic attitude as Atlanta Braves fans. I don’t like criticizing fans who can’t really afford to go to games, but some chose not to go to postseason games solely because of the Braves lack of success in October.

  26. Slack

    All I know is, after almost 70 comments on this story alone, we have finally moved on and put this whole name thing to rest! Hahaha!

  27. Garry

    Bottom line, yes there is a team here, is it named what we wanted of the apparent 3 names he dangled, no, he doesn’t care what we thought and never will. If he cannot keep a promise, listen to the fans/polls then why would he start now, game over.

    The name will apparently stick via tm appeal and on we go, he did a fine job of ignoring everyone that is his only individual success thus far. Bringing a team here was a group and fan effort he gets no individual credit for that apart from his money which I bet there were more than 1 billionaire out there who would have, jmo.

  28. James

    @Garry
    ‘Bringing a team here was a group and fan effort he gets no individual credit for that apart from his money which I bet there were more than 1 billionaire out there who would have, jmo.’

    I’m not so sure about that. I don’t think whales are lining up to buy hockey teams. $500 million isn’t chump change for an NHL expansion franchise. It would be very generous to call hockey America’s fourth favourite sport. There is some risk involved. Apparently quite a few franchises in non traditional hockey markets are losing money year after year.

    On the other hand, I wouldn’t be surprised if $500 million looks like a bargain down the road.

    • Garry

      You know James after I hit submit on that comment the $500M price tag hit me. I rethought it then hoped no one caught that factor, kudos to you, you got me $500M would have been a tough sell to most billionaires.

      • James

        @Garry
        I guess we’ll never know. The only other billionare I can recall that was publicly interested in putting a hockey team in Las Vegas was film and television producer Jerry Bruckheimer.

  29. Garry

    I did have another though though….

    Lets say this TM issue ends with them being denied, it is a possibilty, slim but possible. The matter will take months to resolve according to the legal minds on sports radio.

    So come the spring and we have no name? Wouldn’t he be best now to say if we fail at Golden we always have Silver or Desert as a back up (which everyone liked more any ways) so relax. He acted as though Desert and Silver were smoke and mirrors and it was always Golden, he down played those names so how could he trun to them if the TM fails and not look stupid?

    He should get behind one just in case, will be interesting to see if while Golden is appealed he continues the TM on the other two, if so that speaks volumes.

    • PhiSig150

      If he changes the name now he’ll look stupid. He’ll ultimately settle this issue with the trademark before the season starts ( I would imagine). Begs the question why he wouldn’t have just gone the same route for no adjective Knights (I think he just loves Black or Golden). Now if in a few years he changes the name by adding a Las or subtracting a Golden (hopefully both) or drastically rebranding the team with a completely different name (even better) then I don’t think he’ll have too much egg on his face. Doing so now would be a disaster of epic proportions.

      • JMO

        Firstly doing so now would nto be a disaster if done properly. The public love to forgive and love to be told they are loved and their opinion ultimately matters. If he said he was changing the name because he finally realized the fan base should have a voice etc and did so graciously he would be embraced. As far as the merch matter and X million spent/sold, what is that to a billionaire like $50 to the average guy.

        As far as not changing the name, there is a chance just a slim one he will have no choice. I would bet he had a back up plan and colors ready a tweek so to speak with Silver or Desert. Nothing is done until it’s done. OJ was found innocent and he was more guilty than Vegas winning a TM dispute so…. lol

        • Joe

          I agree with JMO that the time to react and be proactive is now, not later. Its easier to fix an issue from the start then let it continue to cause a problem. I think Foley looks much, much worse by digging his heels in and acting like there is no problem at all and the name is somehow loved. Again, I’m in the camp that I don’t hate the Knights name, and can live with the Golden if the LAS is in there, although I’d prefer just Knights (and I’m not buying the BS about not being able to because of London), or if he insists on something in front then Desert, followed by Silver. Again, I’d be pacified just with the LAS going into the official name. I also really don’t care if he prints stuff up with just “Vegas” as long as when they take the ice the PA announcer says “Your LAS Vegas . . . . .” and the team is listed after Florida and in front of Los Angeles on the NHL website, where it should be, not after Vancouver.

          Further, the trademark thing is the perfect opportunity/excuse for him to actually save face. He can use that to drop in the LAS and shorten it to Knights and everybody moves on. I am sure that there will always be haters no matter what, but I don’t think the general public, outside of Las Vegas, can say that “Las Vegas Knights” is a terrible name. Its really a hard name to goof on if it was just that, not to say that it couldn’t be done. The opportunity is now for Foley to say “Ooops. . . .my bad. Easy fix folks”.

          • PhiSig 150

            I really think that ship has sailed at this point. He has to wait a few years before rebranding or he’ll look like a total incompetent doofus. I can’t see how a team no one has heard of outside of Albany can really derail his TM. Worst comes to absolute worse he kicks them a few million and it goes away. I agree with you though Las Vegas Knights is a thousand times better and worth whatever that junior club would have asked. Although I still don’t like being the Knights when the Kings are 4 hours away. Knights serve Kings. Come on Foley/Adidas how do you not see this???

  30. James

    Golden Knights is here to stay. How about a Rat Pack or a Casino themed goalie mask? sinbin.vegas has the power to make this happen. Gary Bettman can’t stop Antti Raanta wearing Ace of Spades on his goalie mask. It would be a small victory : )

    • berri

      Not sure why it’s here to stay, no approval yet and no tm means it won’t be. Also I think he picked 6 years for a cup solely on the creators life expectancy. So sad will miss that guy who happily took our ticket orders and sold us merch but cared less what we thought. It’s people like that the world will miss. I bet his family just adores him and hopes he lives to 110!

    • PhiSig 150

      But then who’s going to break it to Bettman that gambling is legal out here?

  31. PhiSig 150

    I guess what might be some of the frustration is that after the season ticket drive it kind of seems that the locals have become an afterthought. We don’t care if you like Vegas it plays better globally. Wasn’t the worry that (Las) Vegas couldn’t support a team on its own despite our over 2 million people (apparently we all deal black jack and can’t get time off during game times) not if tourists will want to check our team out or if we can get fans from other cities to come out for a weekend.

    Also where does TV play into all of this? Is the NHL only concerned about gate receipts? My Lakers got a 3 billion dollar deal and my Dodgers did slightly better getting a 8 billion dollar deal. Branding plays a big part into this. Obviously those teams are LA institutions and you would have to sell (Las) Vegas a bit differently (think having a name the locals love would help?). I haven’t heard really anything regarding what channel it might be on, who the play by play and color man will be, pre-game /post-game team, etc. It’s really just been focused so far on tickets and merch (again you sell more if the locals love the concept). I have no doubt for a couple of years anyway will have no problem getting butts in the seats but isn’t there a bigger picture we’re missing?

    • Tom

      @PhiSig150
      I’m pretty sure the only reason he dropped “Las” was to avoid having the name be too long. In other words, he wanted his prefix-knights name so bad that when given the choice of a one worded name or disecting our citys name, he went with the latter. Proves that hardheadedness knows no bounds.

      • sparky chewbarky

        It may have also been dropped so that the geo-name matches the logo.
        For example, I wouldn’t design an “F” logo for San Francisco, or an “A” logo for Los Angeles. “Vegas” may have been chosen to justify the “V” logo. Either way, going with just “Vegas” seems to have been a solution to a self-inflicted problem.
        Hey guys…We’re at 92 replies!!! Let’s go for 100!

        • sparky chewbarky

          (Edit)…
          My above post should have read…
          “Vegas” seems to have been an UNPOPULAR solution to a self-inflicted problem.

        • Joe

          Sparky, that is a very astute observation. Ken was the one, and only one of the local media, that let all of us know months ago that shockingly that Foley preferred just “Vegas” and not Las Vegas. Therefore, the question to me is whether Foley is the one that asked for the V to included or whether it was someone at Adidas (yes, I know Ken has targeted and identified the guy’s firm that put alot of work into creating the logo, but I am just saying Adidas generically since Foley was always saying that he was working with “Adidas” on the logo) who came up with the V.

          Also, unless I missed it, I don’t know think Foley has actually come out and said the V stands for “Vegas”. I am certainly assuming that it is, but if he has not already actually said it, then there is still the opportunity to add the LAS in, not that there wouldn’t still be even if it does supposedly stand for “Vegas”, and say that the V actually stands for Victory. For those that don’t know, the Dallas Stars call their shade of green “victory” green. Further, if he wanted to spin it, I think there is still the ability to claim that there is an inverted/tilted (I don’t know the proper term) on the right side of the logo. Yeah, I know its a stretch and really subtle, but if you look at the top of the logo and then follow it down to the dip and to the right, you can make out an “L”. The point being that even if it was completely not intended, a claim that the there is an L already in the logo could be made for the sake of spin. Probably in the lines of making us all aware that gold represents us in the Silver State and how that is a connection to the environment or those “golden” tones of the Strip that I am still searching for.

          • James

            I thought it was a bit daft calling the team Las Vegas Adjective Knights when we were rumoured to have a V logo. It didn’t make sense.

            Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I find it hard to believe that the logo came before the team name.

            I believe Vegas was a convenient and plausible solution to adjective Knights being too long. Calling the team Vegas is arguablyunprofessional, but it isn’t a reach. The V logo created by Adidas was a pleasant surprise that justified the decision in the eyes of Bill Foley. If Foley wasn’t totally sold on Vegas the logo may have convinced him that it was the way to go.

      • Joe

        Tom, I am of the belief that he did it primarily because of his obsession with this becoming the “World’s team”, which again ticks me off on two fronts. 1) Why don’t we worry about making this Las Vegas’ team for now, and get locals jacked about the team (with the Raiders move possibly being a month to a few months away from being locked in) and 2) do you really think that a team with absolutely no tradition of its own is suddenly just going to become the World’s Team right off the bat!?!?!?!?. If so, then his business model is really F’ed up. Does he not realize that other NHL teams have been trying to gain a foothold in places like China and Japan for the last decade, or longer (I am assuming that these are the two markets that he targeting most for this “World” thing). Does he even realize that the NHL played regular season games in Japan already in front of the Nagano Olympics? I’m not being sarcastic with this question, because it would not surprise me if he is egotistical enough to think that he is the only one that has come up with this idea of being the World’s NHL team.

        I think dropping the LAS was all about that obsession and the “its too long” with those three little letters was just an excuse. I think I might have mentioned it before, as well as some others too, but I believe that 5 to 6 NHL teams have more syllables in their names then Las Vegas Golden Knights would be. Further, no one can tell me that a small space, Las Vegas versus this Lasvegas, would make any damn difference. It’s all about some warped, delusional branding to him that “Vegas” allows this to be the “World’s Team” whereas as “Las Vegas” would not, despite the LAS being able to be dropped for marketing purposes when he wants and used when he wants. I might be overthinking this too, but if I am not mistaken the PR guy from the Sands is now only saying “Vegas” is every interview and the guy running the twitter is also very careful to only say “Vegas” . . . .never the LAS. Please let me know if I am getting this wrong, but I’m just thinking that there is now some edict from above to never use the LAS since again doing so does kinda make them look stupid, especially with Foley claiming that the LAS was dropped to connect more deeply with the locals. If that is the case, then credit where it is due. Stay consistent at least if you are going with that logic.

        What I find very ironic is that all of the casinos and resorts use the LAS in their names for marketing purposes. MGM advertises heavily at Staples Center and they put the “LAS” in their adds there. Point being that if a mega company who is trying to attract people from all over the world chooses to go with the “LAS” then that should tell Foley something about what their market research shows them. The star that they swiped for the secondary logo is from the “Welcome to LAS Vegas” sign. The most famous song referring to the City is “Viva LAS Vegas”, not “Viva Vegas”. While watching some of the “LAS Vegas Bowl” yesterday, the tourism board, if I am not mistaken has changed the slogan from “What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas” to “What happens here, stays here”. Even so, all of the signage at the game, including the end zones had the LAS. My point being that even they do not drop the LAS themselves. This can’t be a coincidence, can it? They must believe that the full name works better than just the “Vegas”.

      • PhiSig 150

        @Tom
        To that I say North Carolina Tar Heels and the Notre Dame Fighting Irish (and countless other collegiate teams) don’t seem to have a problem with their names being too long. Isn’t the official name of what he’s naming our team after like 5 words (Army West Point Black Knights)?

        • James

          @PhiSig 150
          The Army Black Knights, commonly known as Army, is the name of the athletics teams of the United States Military Academy.

          I think it’s also a generational thing. Props to Ken. There is a reason why facebook was chosen over thefacebook. Facebook is more hip and trendy. Millennials will be Foley’s target audience when it comes to selling merchandise.

          • Phisig150

            The website for their athelitic department refers to the school’s athletics as Army West Point Black Knights athletics. Yes it’s commonly shortened to Army or West Point. Thats kind of mine and Joe’s point. You could have named them Las Vegas Insert Names and still market it as Vegas and some people might have still naturally shortened it to Vegas. Keep it classy (like your Alma Mater) Foley.

    • James

      @PhiSig 150
      The TV deal in the United States is small potatoes compared to the other sports, but ticket prices are higher than the other sports. There are not as many fans, but market research shows hockey fans are more wealthy. Gary Bettman got a better TV deal in Canada, where hockey reigns supreme. Despite his attempts to grow the game in the states by expanding, expansion hasn’t led to a mega rich TV deal in the states. Kind of makes you wonder why Bettman is still in charge. The NHL is behind the times. The league needs to be more progressive.

      I don’t mind the name, but I’m surprised by Foley’s short-sightedness. Hockey doesn’t sell itself. It’s a tough sell. If I purchased the team I would do everything in my power to get the fans on board. I would have built off the momentum of not publicly funding the stadium. The season ticket deposits aren’t lifetime season ticket deposits. Senior VP and Chief Marketing Officer Nehme Abouzeid told Ken he wants to give the fans a VIP experience. Some fans don’t sound happy.

      • Joe

        Perfectly said, James. Of all the so called big 4 sports in the US, hockey is the one that has to sell itself the most. Its the one sport that the vast majority of kids do not grow up playing the US. Its the one that has to sell itself on “please give us the opportunity to hook you because you have no idea what you are missing”. Its the sport that needs to “explain how our rules” work, because 1) most people don’t grow up playing it and 2) the ratings are by far the worst of the Big 4.

        Because the TV viewership is so low in comparison to the others, the TV revenue will always lag the other three. . . . .always. Which is why the NHL is very, very heavily gate driven. Because the TV money is just not there as it is for other sports, the NHL needs asses in seats, plain and simple. All of which leads to the same drum I have been banging . . . . . . an owner in the NHL cannot afford to have any potential fan feel slighted/alienated/not passionate about the local team to the point that they will not buy tickets and become emotionally invested in the team. Yes, its important in other sports, but IMO not nearly as much in the NHL because of these factors.

        The real question in the Valley is which team, assuming the Raiders are only a few months away from officially becoming the LAS Vegas Raiders, is going to capture the market. Having to constantly defend why the NHL is the best league in the world, pretty much says it all. . . . . key word being defend. The NHL has to sell itself to gain fans, the NFL not so much. Its why Foley, and his team, need to do everything to get as many Las Vegans in his corner as possible, not just the hardcore NHL fans that already live here, of which there are two types. There are those fans that are only going to go to either to see just their team, and maybe an additional game or two, but will stay home on most nights and watch their team, not the Knights, on TV via the center ice package, and then there are the fans like me, who will plop down the dollars to get season seats because they love the NHL as a league and will go down to T-Mobile on a Wednesday night versus Columbus, and DVR their team’s game and watch it later in the week.

        What I currently am not understanding is why there are literally no billboards around town right now. . . .none. There is literally no signage anywhere that I am aware of. Am I wrong? If so, where are you folks seeing signage that the general public is also seeing? Are their any commercials on local TV hawking tickets right now/pumping up the general public? Admittedly, I don’t really watch NBC, CBS, ABC, or FOX, but are there ads on there?

        On that same topic, are any of you seeing people wearing the gear around town? I am in up in Summerlin, generally out and about on weekends, frequently strolling around at Downtown Summerlin. In basically one month since the launch, I have seen one guy wearing a hat , , , , , , , and that was at the Las Vegas Ice Center where one would expect there to be tons of folks sporting gear. Funny enough, I see more Raiders gear at the rink than any Knights gear (being totally honest here, I have seen only one piece of Knights gear on a person at the rink). Is anyone seeing the general public, in their communities, rocking the gear? I’m not seeing anyone doing it, and that is really concerning me considering how much hype there should be right now. I feel like I am at concert and the lead singer is asking if everyone is pumped for the show and theres a smattering of random applause going on, not a roar.

        As to the VIP experience that Nehme is talking about, all I can say is that as a season holder, I have received exactly one mailing from the team, which was a postcard that had my time seat selection date and time on it. That’s it . . . . .one flimsy postcard. No Xmas card, no sticker to slap on my car, no shirt and hat package . . . . .zero. Do I have something to compare too? Uhhhh. . . . yeah I do. I was a season ticket holder for 4 years and would constantly get stuff from the team. I’d get a personal card from season ticket rep thanking me. Other than a few random blast e-mails from Todd Pollock about the ticket process, for this team, as to anything personal to me and my account, I got one e-mail letting me know who my ticket rep was. That was about two/three months ago now. It wasn’t even from my rep saying “Hey, I am so and so, blah, blah, blah”. Still nothing at all. But . . . . .I do get nearly weekly e-mails from Foley. What are those e-mails you ask about? Well, I’ll tell you. They are e-mails hocking Foley’s “Foley Food & Wine Society”. I have never signed up for that, nor have I ever bought anything from that “Society”.

        Now, please don’t get me wrong. Even though it may sound like I am, I am not bitching about any of this from a personal POV. I am signed up for 5 years of tickets and this won’t be my team anyway (I already explained why that window is closed) so not sending my anything with the team logo is not an issue for me since I am not wearing it or displaying it. My point is that for those that this will be their team, I am just puzzled that there is no effort, at least thats what is appears like, from the Foley staff to reach out to these folks who have committed to this team from a season seat POV. Its actually alarming to me at this point about how half assed, probably more like 1/10th assed, (maybe a result of complete disorganization) it all seems to be right now. So going back to that VIP experience that Nehme is talking about, right now its not being felt. From what I can gather, and I literally know ten groups of seat holders, scattered all throughout T Mobile and in various price ranges (from a few rows off the glass, to lower bowl center ice, to lower bowl corner, to upper bowl center ice, to upper bowl corner), this lack of contact/being given anything is the same for everyone. Keep in mind that when the team opened up the ticket portals, no one actually knew the exact price of what their seats were going to be because not once did the team ever send out a color coded diagram which broke down the price ranges by rows. There were price ranges given, but not with enough detail to precisely now what a seat in a certain row would cost. For example, nobody was clued in as to row B-through D will be X amount, D-J will be Y amount, J through whatever will be Z amount. Nobody knew where the prices were broken into. Maybe I am too demanding of person, but a little advanced warning was kinda expected.

        Maybe the concern is not well founded, but on the other hand there just seem to be some big time alarm bells going off, at least to all off ice related activities, and at this point hopefully someone recognizes this and there will be someone captaining the ship because right now its really hard figuring out what is actually going on here. . . . .figuratively and literally.

  32. berri

    Nehme sold his soul and his word. Here’s hoping the pay was worth it. Everything he has said has been bullshit. The reps the community that is vip blah blah bullshit. Just a Foley puppet like the rest. I truly believe no one protesteth because they need a job. Otherwise every marketing decision has been the worst choice and head scratching moves. Almost like there is a mole trying to make it fail.

Leave a Reply

Powered by WordPress & Theme by Anders Norén

SinBin.vegas

SinBin.vegas